From cz Tue Sep 18 10:25:23 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA05931; Tue, 18 Sep 90 10:25:23 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Sep 90 10:25:23 -0700 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9009181725.AA05931@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #1 (msgs 1-2) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 18 September 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 1 First Message: 1 Messages: 2 Topics: (1) Warship Commander? d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (2) Air Ordnance Details tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Sep 90 8:40:27 MET DST From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se Subject: (1) Warship Commander? Comment: admin comments added in brackets Some days ago, I was discussing Harpoon and related topics with a friend, and the subject of CZ came up. I mentioned that someone had mentioned an even more complex game of modern naval warfare called 'Warship Commander'. To put it mildly: He went nuts. So therefore, I'm asking this: Does anyone out there have any information about Warship Commander, Who published it? When? Is it still in print? Is it up-to-date? and so on. EMAIL replies would be preferred, since this might be outside the limits of the CZ. (Is it?) [admin note: CZ traffic should have something to do with Harpoon. The connection can be pretty remote. For example, my book reviews qualify only because they describe sources to check and expand on Harpoon data. Hint: try to compare WC to Harpoon in design focus, price, accuracy, complexity, playing time, fun, etc.] -bertil- -- Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004 "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7" SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN (Famous last words) "I say cut his air!" "I say cut his heat!" "I say raise his rent!" "Hey, we're trying to get rid of an Alien, not evict a tenant!" Alien - American MAD version ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 17 Sep 1990 12:01:55 PDT From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (2) Air Ordnance Details I would like to try to flesh out a few important game details for Annex G4 (Guided Air Ordnance) in the 1990 Data Annex book. One important detail is whether the weapons have any propulsion. Unpowered weapons glide and have severe range restrictions if launched from low altitude. Another one is determining what weapons are "Launch and Leave". My primary source of information is "World Naval Weapon Systems" (published by Naval Institute Press). As noted below, I have also used some information from recent CZ articles. Any further information on these topics would be appreciated. (Anyone have complete list of AGMs, BLUs, CBUs, GBUs, etc. ?) I think the following weapons drawn from Annex G4 are unpowered: all Laser Guided Bombs (LGB and French BGL) US BLU-109/B US all Guided Bomb Units (GBU) weapons US KMU-420/B (smart bomb?) US Walleye I US Walleye II US Paveway bombs (the laser guided GBUs based on low drag general purpose (LDGP) bombs) have glide ratios around 5:1. I don't have any data for the others. As far as the game is concerned, I think, the only confusion about Launch and Leave (L&L) has to do with non-laser electo-optically (EO) guided weapons. Here is a list of EO weapons from Annex G4. UK AJ.168 EO(TV) This weapon is the TV guided version of Martel. Apparently, it is not in service anymore. Since it was developed around the time of Walleye, I suspect it uses a similar system. US AGM-65A Maverick EO(TV) US AGM-65B Maverick EO(TV) US AGM-65D Maverick EO(IIR) US AGM-65F Maverick EO(IIR) US AGM-65G Maverick EO(IIR) Information provided in article v2 47 (by ted@cs.utexas.edu) indicates these should be Launch and Leave. The operator locks the missile onto the target image at launch. The missile homes in on the image and the plane can do as it pleases after launch. The G model is supposed to be able to aim for a certain part of the target. US AGM-130 EO(TV or IIR) This weapon is a powered GBU-15. This weapon was cancelled. US GBU-15(V)/B EO(TV or IIR) I have no hard information about this weapon. I suspect it is more like Walleye in guidance methods. US Have Nap I/EO(TV) This weapon is the Israeli Popeye 2 TV guided bomb. The seeker is supposed to be based on Maverick. Thus, I assume the weapon is L&L. US SLAM I/M/TEO(IIR) This weapon is described as a modified Harpoon using Maverick IIR seeker and Walleye II data link. It is intended primarily to attack ground targets. It launches like a Harpoon. (Apparently, the weapon can use GPS for navigation.) In the terminal phase, the operator locks the missile onto a target image (by using the data link). After that, the missile homes in on the image. The system is launch and leave, except during midcourse correction and target selection. During those periods, I assume you need an LOS to the missile. (I suppose it is possible a frequency not requiring LOS is used.) US Walleye I EO(TV) US Walleye II EO(TV) Information provided in article v2 44 (by sandia!ralph@unmvax.cs.unm.edu) indicates operator guidance is required. The Walleye needs an LOS to the target. The operator needs control the missile via data link. Thus, the operator needs LOS to the missile. (Again, I suppose it is possible a frequency not requiring LOS is used.) -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Mon Oct 1 09:06:56 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA11323; Mon, 1 Oct 90 09:06:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Oct 90 09:06:56 -0700 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9010011606.AA11323@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #2 (msgs 3-4) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 1 October 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 2 First Message: 3 Messages: 2 Topics: (3) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (4) Miniatures tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri 28 Sep 1990 13:58:40 PDT From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (3) Editorial New members added since last issue: rand@apollo.hp.com (Rand Hoven) izar@shum.huji.ac.il (Izar Tarandach) -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 19 Sep 1990 09:22:52 PDT From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (4) Miniatures In v2 msg 35, davisje@crdgw2.crd.ge.com writes: > Apparently in the pilot issue of the Harpoon SITREP, the address for > Skytrex miniatures was published. What follows is a summary of the information published in the various issues of the SITREP about purchasing miniatures. Any further information or personal opinions are welcome. DISCLAIMER: I have nothing to do with any miniatures company. MANUFACTURERS Modern naval miniatures come in two scales, 1:2400 and 1:3000. In general, the 1:2400 is more expensive, higher quality and more detailed. BTW, Harpoon is at 1:36000 as far as distances are concerned. At that scale, though, pieces are too small to play with and not much fun to look at. (US carrier less than 1 cm long. A missile boat less than 1 mm long!) C-in-C 1:2400 scale, very good quality limited selection, 10 ship types each of USSR and US Denian 1:3000 scale, poor to fair quality extensive selection with rare ship classes includes ships of Japan, Netherland, Norway, Sweden, USSR and US 1:2400 scale, fair quality newer than 1:3000 line, may not have full variety yet example price: US O.H. Perry FFG - $2.50 GHQ 1:2400 scale, excellent quality, "offical" Harpoon miniatures small but expanding line, currently 17 total ship types of USSR and US example prices: US CVN-71 - $24.95 USSR ship pack: Slava CG, 2 Sovremenny DDG, 3 Nanuchka FFL - $24.95 2 USSR Udaloy DDG - $15.95 3 US Knox FF - $15.95 Skytrex 1:3000 scale, poor to fair quality very complete selection, even have port facilities and oil rigs example prices: typical US Carrier - $5.00 others ships from $1.25 to $2.50 US Belknap CG - $1.60 Superior 1:2400 scale, good ("adequate") quality includes ships of Canada, France, Italy, USSR, UK and US some aircraft also DISTRIBUTORS Below is a list of distributors listed in the SITREP. All of the ones listed are in the US. I am sure other distributors must exist. For example, Skytrex is apparently a UK company, so one would expect distributors in Europe. Can our European readers provide any additional information? Alnavco Box 9 Belle Haven, VA 23306 (804) 442-2323 GHQ, Superior products phone orders, $20 minimum credit card orders C-in-C Soft Metal Castings 8090 University Ave. NE Fridley, MN 55432 (612) 780-8554 discounts for $30+ orders, phone orders, credit card orders GHQ 2634 Bryant Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55408 (612) 374-2693 phone orders, credit card orders Battlefields P.O. Box 2473 Reston, VA 22090 Denian, GHQ, Skytrex products 20% discount for (US?) military personel, write for catalog Modeler's Mart 2071 Range Rd. Clearwater, FL 34625 (813) 443-3822 or (813) 447-1189 GHQ, Skytrex, Superior products phone orders, $10 minimum credit card orders SIMTAC Inc. 20 Attawan Rd. Niatic, CT 06357 Denian products -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Fri Oct 5 17:06:39 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA14825; Fri, 5 Oct 90 17:06:39 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Oct 90 17:06:39 -0700 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9010060006.AA14825@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #3 (msgs 5-6) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 5 October 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 3 First Message: 5 Messages: 2 Topics: (5) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (6) Recent Naval Developments tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 3 Oct 1990 07:07:05 PDT From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (5) Editorial New members added since last issue: maarten@taurus.sbi.com (Maarten Nederlof) I am still researching the Indian Navy. It's taking longer than expected because there is so much missing and contradictory information. Nevertheless, the first article in the Indian Navy series should come out next week. -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri 5 Oct 1990 15:20:14 PDT From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (6) Recent Naval Developments Items taken from Proceedings of the USNI (October issue). After a review by the Secretary of Defense, the USN shipbuilding program has been cut back. Congress may even be reluctant to fund even the pruned down version. The Seawolf SSN order rate will be halved from an average rate of 3 to 1.5 per year. The Arleigh Burke DDG buys will be reduced from an average rate of 5 to 4 per year. USN Desert Shield deployments include the Middle East Force, 5 CVBGs, 3 Amphibious Task Forces, 13 Maritime Prepositioning ships, 10 Afloat Prepositioning Force ships, 42 Ready Reserve Force ships and 10 Military Sealift Command ships. Combat forces include 5 CV(N), 2 BB, 6 Aegis CG, 4 CG(N), 8 DD, 4 DDG, 6 FF, and 6 FFG. The Soviet Union has changed the name of some of their ships. The ships in question have names that have to do with breakaway republics. The Krivak II FFG "Kosmolets Litvyy" (honoring Lithuaian Young Communists) has reverted to her old name "Neukrotimyy" (Indomitable). The Tbilisi class CVs have also been renamed. "Riga" is now "Varyag". "Tbilisi" has also has been given a new name. -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Fri Oct 12 13:30:06 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA19094; Fri, 12 Oct 90 13:30:06 -0700 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 90 13:30:06 -0700 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9010122030.AA19094@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #4 (msg 7) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 12 October 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 4 First Message: 7 Messages: 1 Topics: (7) Annex A, India (Part 1) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 12 Oct 1990 08:52:16 PDT From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (7) Annex A, India (Part 1) Here are the stats for the two CVHs. The aircraft will be described separately in the Annex B info. Vikraat (UK Hermes) class CVH ------------------------- Displacement: 23,900 metric tons In Class: 1 Damage Points: 514 In Service: 1989 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 28 knots Propulsion: Steam Crew: approx. 1,170 Weapons: Total Mounts: 8 P/S(4)2 Sea Cat with 4 missiles // 2 Type 904 D/UK 4 UK LCVP Mk 4 A/India 6 Sea Harrier FRS.Mk 51 B/India 6 Sea King Mk 42B B/India 3 Sea King Mk 42C B/India 2 Elevator - Sensors: Type 965, Type 993, 2 Type 1006 J/UK Type 184 M/UK Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- R 22 Viraat 1989 Ex-HMS Hermes, in UK service 1959-85. Vikraat means "mighty". Can launch 8 small/medium helicopters at once. 18mm deck armor, 30mm armor over magazine and machinery spaces. General Armor Rating: L. Critical Hit Protection: Flight Deck and Engineering are L. Crew is smaller than in UK service. Sea Cat upgraded to use Type 904 vice original Type 903 director. Additional Type 1006 replaced original Type 978 in 1986 refit. Can carry 750 troops. Landing by helicopters and landing craft (LCVP). Assume LCVP is UK Mk 4 model. There are plans to equip the ship with up to 30 Sea Harriers, with helicopters to be flown primarily from other ships. Crew may be increased, if air group is enlarged. Carries 320 metric tons aviation fuel. EW gear added in India. Carries 4200 metric tons of fuel, giving range of 6500 nm at 14 knots. Summer of 1956: joined UK active fleet. 1964-66: converted to carry Buccaneer and Sea Vixen. 1971-73: converted to helicopter commando carrier. 1976-77: converted to ASW helicopter carrier. 1980-81: refitted to operate Sea Harrier, 12 degree "ski jump" added. 1982: operated in Falklands with up to 12 Harriers and several helicopters. Early 1984: transferred to training status. 12 April 1984: paid off. 1 July 1985: stricken. 19 April 1986: sold to India. Summer of 1986: start of refit and overhaul in UK. 14 November 1986: transferred to Indian control. 12 May 1987: commissioning in Devonport, UK. 15 February 1989: formal commissioning in India. DA Errata: The UK Hermes entry should list Sea Cat as (4)2 rather than (2)4. Total mounts should be 8 not 10. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 129 257 386 463 514 Surface Speed: 28 21 14 7 0 Sinks Vikrant (UK Glory) class CVH ------------------------ Displacement: 15,700 metric tons In Class: 1 Damage Points: 378 In Service: 1961 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 24 knots Propulsion: Steam Crew: 1340 Weapons: Total Mounts: 11 2P&PB/2P&PQ/2S&SB/2S&SQ (1)8 Bofors 40mm/70 // 4 WM.22 C/Sweden 6 Sea Harrier FRS.Mk 51 B/India 6 Sea King Mk 42B B/India 3 Sea King Mk 42C B/India 1 Catapult - 2 Elevators - Sensors: DA.05, LW.08, ZW.06 J/Nethl Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- R 11 Virant 1961 Ex-HMS Hercules, bought from UK while incomplete in 1957. Dual Deck. Assume can launch 6 small/medium helicopters at once. Catapult is not used now. Sea Harrier cannot use a catapult. Assume each pair of guns with the same arc is controlled by one director. Crew is 1075 in peacetime. Bofors 40mm/70 replaced original UK 40mm twin Mk 5 and single Mk 9 mounts in 1979-82 refit. These old UK mounts are actually the older Bofors 40mm/60. Bofors 40mm/70 operated in local control until 1985 when the directors were added. One hangar. Assume catapult and "ski jump" are both installed on the bow run. Still carries arrestor gear. Assume arrestor gear is installed along the angled deck run. Original air group contained French Alize ASW planes which used the catapult and arrestor gear. Chetak ASW helicopters were used before the Sea Kings. There are plans to equip the ship with up to 20 Sea King Mk 42C, with Sea Harriers moved elsewhere. It would then operate primarily as a commando CVH. The gun arcs are a guess. Carries 3,200 metric tons of fuel, giving range of 6,200 nm at 23 knots or 12,000 nm at 14 knots. Air conditioned. January 1957: purchased from UK while still incomplete. 1961: in Indian service. 1979-82: modernized with new boiler, engines, CIC, Dutch radars, new AA guns December 1982 - February 1983: refitted to allow Sea Harrier operation, Alize still carried. 1984: more Sea Harriers added, Alize removed. 1985: Selenia IPN-10 combat data system added, directors for guns added. 15 February 1989: recomissioned after refit, "ski jump" added in refit. 28 August 1989: "ski jump" trials. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 94 189 283 340 378 Surface Speed: 24 18 12 6 0 Sinks -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Fri Oct 19 13:52:17 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA01910; Fri, 19 Oct 90 13:52:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 90 13:52:17 -0700 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9010192052.AA01910@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #5 (msg 8) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 18 October 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 5 First Message: 8 Messages: 1 Topics: (8) Annex A, India (Part 2) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri 19 Oct 1990 13:42:09 PDT From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (8) Annex A, India (Part 2) This article covers the submarines. Chakra (USSR Charlie I) class SSGN ----------------------------- Displacement: 4500 metric tons subm. In Class: 1 Damage Points: 80 In Service: 1988 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 20/27 knots Propulsion: Nuclear Crew: 90 Weapons: Total Mounts: 3 PB&SB(3)2 533mm torpedo tubes with 12 torpedoes F PB&SB(8)1 SS-N-7 with no missiles D Sensors: Snoop Tray J Shark Fin, Shark Teeth M Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- S ? Chakra 1988 On lease from USSR. Assume torpedo loadout of 6 SET-65 and 6 SAET-60. Incurs +15% Soviet Submarine modifier for passive sonar detection. Normal diving depth 400m, maximum diving depth 600m. Damage point calculation uses the submarine modifier (0.50). No nuclear torpedoes carried. No Starbright SSM carried. On a 3 year renewable 3-year lease. On 14 February 1989, Indian Prime Minister Ghandi stated India would not renew when the lease expired. Soviet advisors believed to be part of the crew. 5 January 1988: transferred to India at Vladivostok. February 1988: arrived in India. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 20 40 60 72 80 Surface Speed: 20 15 10 5 0 Sinks Submerged Speed: 27 20 14 7 0 Sinks Shishumar (FRG SSK-1500) class SS ------------------------------ Displacement: 1860 metric tons subm. In Class: 2+2 Damage Points: 36 In Service: 1986 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 11/23 knots Propulsion: Diesel-Electric Crew: 36 Weapons: Total Mounts: 2 PB&SB(4)2 533mm torpedo tubes with 14 torpedoes F/FRG Sensors: Calypso IV J/France DBQS-21 (CSU 83) (H&T) M/FRG DUUX-5 (localization sonar) M/France Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- S 44 Shishumar 1986 S 45 Shankush 1986 S 46 Shalki 1991 S 47 ? 1992 Variant of FRG Type 209. Assume torpedo loadout of 14 SUT. Assume the DBQS-21 is hull mounted only, but use the DBQS-21 H&T type statistics (not the T type information). DUUX-5 is a localization sonar. Add 10% to passive fire control solution chance if target detected by this sonar. Very Small sonar target. Damage point calculation uses the Submarine modifier (0.50). Sensor types estimated. Submerged endurance of 524 nm at 4 knots using batteries. Gabler spherical escape chamber. Can use strap-on minelaying pods. Carries 146 metric tons of fuel for diesel, giving surface range of 13,000 nm at 10 knots or snorkeling range of 8,200 nm at 8 knots. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 9 18 27 32 35 Surface Speed: 11 8 6 3 0 Sinks Submerged Speed: 23 17 11 6 0 Sinks Sindhugosh (USSR Kilo) class SS ---------------------------- Displacement: 2900 metric tons subm. In Class: 7+1 Damage Points: 53 In Service: 1986 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 12/20 knots Propulsion: Diesel-Electric Crew: 60 Weapons: Total Mounts: 3 PB&SB(3)2 533mm torpedo tubes with 12 torpedoes F/USSR F&A(1)1 SA-N-8 with 4 Gremlin (see remarks) D/USSR Sensors: Snoop Tray J/USSR Shark Fin, Shark Gill (passive only) M/USSR Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- S 55 Sindhugosh 1986 S 56 Sindhudhvaj 1987 S 57 Sindhuraj 1987 S 58 Sindhuvir 1988 S 59 Sindhuratna 1988 S 60 Sindhukesari 1989 S 61 Sindhukirit 1989 S 62 ? 1990 Assume torpedo loadout is 12 ET-80A. Appears to have a position at aft end of sail for shoulder launch SA-14. Treat as SA-N-8 mount (ROF = 1/turn) only useable while surfaced and manned. Has anechoic coating. Not subject to Soviet submarine sonar modifier. Uses submarine modifier (0.50) in damage point calculation. Appear to be intended to replace India's Foxtrot submarines. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 13 26 40 48 53 Surface Speed: 12 9 6 3 0 Sinks Submerged Speed: 20 15 10 5 0 Sinks Kursura (USSR Foxtrot) class SS ---------------------------- Displacement: 2400 metric tons subm. In Class: 6+[2] Damage Points: 45 In Service: 1968 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 16/15 knots Propulsion: Diesel-Electric Crew: 78 Weapons: Total Mounts: 4 PB&SB(3)2 533mm torpedo tubes with 18 torpedoes F/USSR PQ&SQ(2)2 533mm torpedo tubes with 4 torpedoes F/USSR Sensors: Snoop Tray J/USSR Feniks, Hercules M/USSR Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- S 20 Kursura 1970 S 21 Karanj 1970 S 22 Kandheri 1969 S 23 Kalvari 1968 S 40 Vela 1973 S 41 Vagir 1973 S 42 Vagli 1974 S 43 Vagsheer 1974 Assume forward torpedo loadout to be 12 Type 53-65 and 6 SET-65. Assume rear torpedo loadout to be 4 SET-65. Subject to Soviet submarine sonar modifier. Two mines may be carried in place of each torpedo. Uses submarine modifier (0.50) in damage point calculation. Submerged endurance of 350 nm at 2 knots using batteries. Carries 360 tons of fuel for diesel, giving snorkeling range of 11,000 nm at 8 knots. These units were new on delivery. Most have been refitted at least once in the USSR. Two units in reserve by 1989. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 11 22 33 40 45 Surface Speed: 16 12 8 4 0 Sinks Submerged Speed: 15 11 8 4 0 Sinks -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Tue Oct 23 09:29:07 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA03932; Tue, 23 Oct 90 09:29:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 90 09:29:07 -0700 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9010231629.AA03932@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #6 (msgs 9-11) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 23 October 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 6 First Message: 9 Messages: 3 Topics: (9) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (10) Maverick Models frank0@ibmpcug.co.uk (11) Annex A, India (Part 3) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 23 Oct 1990 07:58:35 PDT From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (9) Editorial New members added since last issue: lenoirjw@ingr.com (Billy Lenoir) After the Indian Navy series is done, I will be posting the latest errata from Larrry Bond. -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Oct 90 02:55:26 BST (Sat) From: Frank Dunn Subject: (10) Maverick Models Comment: message reformated More on Maverick, this comes from the current (Sept 90) issue of Maritime Defence: The A, B & E models were all developed for use vs. land targets. Opinion is that SALH is not useful vs. ships. The D model was developed with the 125lb shaped charge warhead and IIR to replace the A & B anti-armour models. The F model with the 300lb warhead was designed as an anti-ship weapon with IIR. The G type is for anti-ship or high value land target use as it has a switchable terminal guidance mode. The F model has a bias towards the waterline of the ship, the G has this plus 2 other other pilot switchable modes for land targets. The D, E & F models have a low smoke motor, apparently the early types had a distinct tail from launch to burn out. Common max range is given as (c) 25 km. Types cleared for use are as follows: A-4, A-6, A-7, A-10, AV-8B, F-4, F-5, F-16, F/A-18, F-111, JA 37 Viggen (Sweden), Hawker Hunter Mk58A (Switzerland). Launchers are either the single rail LAU-117/A or 108/A or the triple rail LAU-88/A. The F type is in use by the USN whilst the USAF started taking the G model some 18 months ago. In 1988 Kuwait became the first foreign country to buy the G model, assume for their A-4's. In 1990 Denmark ordered 162 of the G model for the Royal Danish AF F-16's use in the Baltic Approaches. Some detail on the IIR guidance: Centroid homing is used for the initial acquisition and mid course guidance. It adapts to "thermally bounded targets and avoids aiming at specific hot spots". Correlation tracking is used in the terminal phase when the targets image is larger than the seekers field of view, this scans the generalised scene and attempts to minimise scene differences to keep the centroid homing on track. Frank fdunn@cix fdunn@bix 100012,23 CIS Frank Dunn@MacTel "It must be jelly 'cos jam don't shake like that" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 23 Oct 1990 08:35:24 PDT From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (11) Annex A, India (Part 3) The following is the only class of destroyers currently service with the Indian Navy. Rajput (USSR Kashin) class DDG -------------------------- Displacement: 3950 metric tons In Class: 5 Damage Points: 127 In Service: 1980 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 36 knots Propulsion: COGAG Crew: 365 Weapons: Total Mounts: 16 2P/2S(2)4 AK-230 // 2 Drum Tilt (D 51-53) C/USSR 2P/2S(R)4 AK-630 with 15 bursts // 2 Bass Tilt (D 54, 55) C/USSR F(2)1 AK-276 // 1 Owl Screech C/USSR F/A(2)2 SA-N-1 with 22 Goa // 2 Peel Group D/USSR PB&SB(1)4 SS-N-2C with 1 Styx D/USSR F(12)2 RBU-6000 with 5 salvoes E/USSR P&S(5)1 533mm torpedo tubes with 5 SET-65 F/USSR Aft Pad(1)1: 1 Ka-25 Hormone A (D 51-53, 55) B/USSR Aft Pad(1)1: 1 Ka-27 Helix A (D 54) B/USSR 1 Elevator - Sensors: Big Net, Head Net C, 2 Don Kay J/USSR Bull Horn, Steer Hide M/USSR Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- D 51 Rajput 1980 D 52 Rana 1982 D 53 Ranjit 1983 D 54 Ranvir 1986 D 55 Ranvijay 1988 Variant of USSR Kashin class. Helicopter hanger accessed via elevator. Each pair of AK-230 or AK-630 with the same arc are controlled by the director on that side of the ship. Uses Soviet construction modifier (0.90) in damage point calculation. Range 900 nm at 35 knots or 5000 nm at 18 knots. New construction, not converted Soviet units. This variant is not the same as the Soviet "Modified Kashin" class. Compared to that class, the after 76mm gun and second gun director are deleted in favor of a helicopter hanger and elevator. The Styx missiles are mounted forward and point forward. The crew is larger. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 32 63 95 114 127 Surface Speed: 36 27 18 9 0 Sinks -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Tue Oct 30 10:13:49 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA09006; Tue, 30 Oct 90 10:13:49 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 10:13:49 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9010301813.AA09006@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #7 (msg 12) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 30 October 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 7 First Message: 12 Messages: 1 Topics: (12) Annex A, India (Part 4) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 30 Oct 1990 10:08:04 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (12) Annex A, India (Part 4) Here are the frigates of the Indian Navy: Godavari class FF -------------- Displacement: 3500 metric tons In Class: 3 Damage Points: 126 In Service: 1983 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 27 knots Propulsion: Steam Crew: 313 Weapons: Total Mounts: 14 2P/2S(2)4 AK-230 // 2 Drum Tilt C/USSR F(2)1 AK-257 // 1 Muff Cob C/USSR F(2)1 SA-N-4 with 20 Gecko // 1 Pop Group D/USSR PB&SB(1)4 SS-N-2C with 1 Styx D/USSR P/S(3)2 324mm torpedo tubes with 3 NST-58 F/India Aft Pad(1)2: 1 Sea King Mk 42B, 1 Chetak B/India Sensors: Head Net C J/USSR RALW-02 J/India ZW.06 J/Netherlands Type 184 (F 20,23) M/UK APSOH (F 22) M/India Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- F 20 Godavari 1983 F 22 Ganga 1986 F 23 Gomati 1988 Indian design using USSR, Western and native equipment. Each pair of AK-230 with same arc are controlled by the director on that side. Allow local control for AK-230 and AK-257. SS-N-2C ROF = 4/turn (all mounts). Bear Trap helicopter hauldown system. Twin stabilizers. Backup manual directors for AK-230 and AK-257. Helicopter hanger sized for two Sea Kings, but the lighter Chetak is usually carried instead of one of the Sea Kings for stability reasons. Range of 4500 nm at 12 knots. Hull is derived from UK Leander class. Propulsion is same as UK Leander class. The RALW-02 uses the same antenna as the Netherlands DA.08 radar. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 31 63 94 113 126 Surface Speed: 27 20 14 7 0 Sinks Nilgiri (UK Leander variant 1) class FF ------------------------------------ Displacement: 2500 metric tons In Class: 1 Damage Points: 92 In Service: 1972 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 30 knots Propulsion: Steam Crew: 410 Weapons: Total Mounts: 6 P/S(1)2 Mk4 20mm/80 C/UK F(2)1 Mk6 114mm/45 // 1 Type 903 C/UK A(4)1 Sea Cat with 4 missiles // 1 Type 903 D/UK A(3)1 Mk10 Limbo with 17 salvoes // 1 Type 170 E/UK Aft Pad(1)1: 1 Chetak B/India Sensors: Type 965, Type 978, Type 993 J/UK Type 184, Type 199 M/UK Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- F 33 Nilgiri 1972 First variant in Indian Navy of UK Leander class The Mk 4 20mm/80 operate in local control. Very crowded due to large crews. Type 170 director is actually a sonar. Has 500 metric tons of fuel, giving range of 4500 nm at 12 knots. Will have both search sonars replaced by an unknown type made by Westinghouse. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 23 46 69 83 92 Surface Speed: 30 23 15 8 0 Sinks Himgiri (UK Leander variant 2) class FF ------------------------------------ Displacement: 2500 metric tons In Class: 3 Damage Points: 92 In Service: 1974 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 30 knots Propulsion: Steam Crew: 410 Weapons: Total Mounts: 7 P/S(1)2 Mk4 20mm/80 C/UK F(2)1 Mk6 114mm/45 // 1 M45 C/UK P/S(4)2 Sea Cat with 4 missiles // 2 M44 D/UK A(3)1 Mk10 Limbo with 17 salvoes // 1 Type 170 E/UK Aft Pad(1)1: 1 Chetak B/India Sensors: LW.08, ZW.06 J/Netherlands Decca J/UK ASPOH (F 34) M/India Type 199 (F 34) M/UK Type 184 (F 35,36) M/UK Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- F 34 Himgiri 1974 F 35 Udaygiri 1976 F 36 Dunagiri 1977 Second variant in Indian Navy of UK Leander class. The Mk 4 20mm/80 operate in local control. Very crowded due to large crews. Type 170 director is actually a sonar. Has 500 metric tons of fuel, giving range of 4500 nm at 12 knots. This variant differs from the first in having two Sea Cat launchers instead of one. Also, completely different radars are used. F 34 uses a different hull-mount sonar, but F 35 and 36 go back to the Type 184. Also F 34 has the same towed sonar as the first variant, but F 35 and 36 have no towed sonars at all. All three will have all search sonars replaced by an unknown type made by Westinghouse. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 23 46 69 83 92 Surface Speed: 30 23 15 8 0 Sinks Taragiri (UK Leander variant 3) class FF ------------------------------------- Displacement: 3250 metric tons In Class: 2 Damage Points: 117 In Service: 1980 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 30 knots Propulsion: Steam Crew: 410 Weapons: Total Mounts: 9 P/S(1)2 Mk4 20mm/80 C/UK F(2)1 Mk6 114mm/45 // 1 M45 C/UK P/S(4)2 Sea Cat with 4 missiles // 2 M44 D/UK F(2)1 Bofors 2-tube mortar with 14 salvoes // 1 Type 170 E/Sweden P/S(3)2 324mm torpedo tubes with 3 A.244s F/Italy Aft Pad(1)1: 1 Sea King Mk 42B B/India Sensors: LW.08, ZW.06 J/Netherlands Decca J/UK Beluga M/France Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- F 41 Taragiri 1980 F 42 Vindhyagiri 1981 Third variant in Indian Navy of UK Leander class. The Mk 4 20mm/80 operate in local control. Bear Trap helicopter hauldown system. Very crowded due to large crews. Type 170 director is actually a sonar. Has 500 metric tons of fuel, giving range of 4500 nm at 12 knots. Displaces more than other variants. Telescoping hangar and enlarged flight deck to handle Sea King helicopter. Mk10 Limbo replaced with Bofors mortar and ASW torpedo tubes. Search sonars replaced with a French system (type estimated). Plans exist to equip with SS-N-2C, though they are already overloaded. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 29 59 88 106 117 Surface Speed: 30 23 15 8 0 Sinks Betwa (UK Leopard) class FF ------------------------ Displacement: 2300 metric tons In Class: 1 Damage Points: 86 In Service: 1960 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 25 knots Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 240 Weapons: Total Mounts: 3 A(2)1 Mk5 40mm/60 C/UK F(2)1 Mk6 114mm/45 // Type 275 C/UK F(3)1 Squid Mk4 with 10 salvoes // 1 Type 170 F/UK Sensors: Type 293, Type 978 J/UK Type 162, Type 174, Type 177 M/UK Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- F 38 Betwa 1960 UK Leopard (Type 41) class. Mk5 40mm/60 operate in local control. Assume reloading of Squid is manual. Squid reloads are estimated. Note the Type 170 director is actually a sonar. Range is 7500 nm at 15 knots. Used for training of cadets. After Mk6 114mm/45 mount replaced by deckhouse accomodations for cadets. Modernization in 1981 removed directors for Mk5 40mm/60. Two sister ships struck in 1986 and 1988. Supposed to strike on completion of second Tir class auxiliary training ship. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 21 43 64 77 86 Surface Speed: 25 19 13 6 0 Sinks Trishul (UK Whitby) class FF ------------------------- Displacement: 2150 metric tons In Class: 1 Damage Points: 81 In Service: 1960 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 30 knots Propulsion: Steam Crew: 231 Weapons: Total Mounts: 10 2P/2S(2)4 AK-230 // 2 Drum Tilt C/USSR F(1)3 SS-N-2B with 1 Styx // 1 Square Tie D/USSR P/S(3)2 324mm torpedo tube with 3 A.244s F/Italy Aft Pad (1)1: 1 Chetak B/India Sensors: RALW-04 J/India ZW.06 J/Netherlands Square Tie J/USSR Type 162, Type 174, Type 177 M/UK Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- F 43 Trishul 1960 UK Whitby (Type 12) class. Each pair of AK-230 with same arc are controlled by the director on that side. SS-N-2B ROF = 2/turn (all mounts). Helicopter hauldown system. Torpedo type estimated. Has 370 metric tons of fuel giving 4500 nm range at 12 knots. Original Mk6 114mm/45 replaced with SS-N-2B (and Square Tie) taken from Osa I missile boats. Refit in 1982-83 removed Limbo, enlarged hanger, added hauldown system, replaced old radars and added Soviet AK-230s. Last modernization finished by early 1987. Sister ship stricken in 1988. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 20 40 61 73 81 Surface Speed: 30 23 15 8 0 Sinks -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Thu Nov 8 08:42:57 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA06754; Thu, 8 Nov 90 08:42:57 -0800 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 08:42:57 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9011081642.AA06754@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #8 (msg 13) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 8 Novemeber 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 8 First Message: 13 Messages: 1 Topics: (13) Annex A, India (Part 5) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu 8 Nov 1990 08:34:47 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (13) Annex A, India (Part 5) Here are the light frigates and corvettes: Khukri class FFL ------------ Displacement: 1125 metric tons In Class: 2+2+8 Damage Points: 47 In Service: 1989 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 25 knots Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 91 Weapons: Total Mounts: 7 A(R)2 AK-630 with 15 bursts // 1 Bass Tilt C/USSR F(1)1 AK-176 // 1 Bass Tilt C/USSR A(1)2 SA-N-5 with 1 Grail D/USSR PB&SB(2)2 SS-N-2C with 2 Styx D/USSR Sensors: Bharat 1245 J/India Plank Shave, Positive E J/USSR Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- P ? Khukri 1989 P ? Khutar 1990 There is only one Bass Tilt director. Both the AK-630 and AK-176 are linked to it. SS-N-2C ROF = 4/turn (all mounts). Aft pad for 1 Chetak helicopter, no hanger. Range of 4000nm. Standard displacement estimated from full load displacement. May receive ASW equipment in the future. Later units may use gas turbines and have SA-N-4. Intended to replace Arnala (USSR Petya III) class ships. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 12 23 35 42 47 Surface Speed: 25 19 13 6 0 Sinks Nirvik (USSR Tarantul I) class FFL ------------------------------ Displacement: 480 metric tons In Class: 4+13+11 Damage Points: 22 In Service: 1987 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 35 knots Propulsion: CODOG Crew: 50 Weapons: Total Mounts: 6 A(R)2 AK-630 with 15 bursts // 1 Bass Tilt C/USSR F(1)1 AK-176 // 1 Bass Tilt C/USSR A(4)1 SA-N-5 with 4 Grail D/USSR PB&SB(2)2 SS-N-2C with 2 Styx D/USSR Sensors: Plank Shave, Kivach J/USSR Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- K 40 Nirvik 1987 K 41 Ranvital 1988 K 42 Nipat 1989 K 43 Nishak 1989 There is only one Bass Tilt director. Both the AK-630 and AK-176 are linked to it. SA-N-5 ROF = 4/turn at same target. SS-N-2C ROF = 4/turn (all mounts) at same target. Uses Soviet Construction modifier (0.90) in damage point calculation. Carries 50 tons of fuel giving 400 nm range at 35 knots or 2000 nm range at 20 knots. Replacing the Prachand (USSR Osa II) class and retired USSR Osa I class boats, taking their names. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 5 11 16 19 22 Surface Speed: 35 26 18 9 0 Sinks Vijaydurg (USSR Nanuchka II) class FFL ---------------------------------- Displacement: 780 metric tons In Class: 3 Damage Points: 32 In Service: 1977 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 32 knots Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 60 Weapons: Total Mounts: 4 A(2)1 AK-257 // 1 Muff Cobb C/USSR F(2)1 SA-N-4 with 20 Gecko // 1 Pop Group D/USSR PB&SB(2)2 SS-N-2C with 2 Styx // 1 Square Tie D/USSR Sensors: Square Tie, Don-2 J/USSR Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- K 71 Vijaydurg 1977 K 72 Sindhurdurg 1977 K 73 Hosdurg 1978 Export version of USSR Nanuchka I. SA-N-4 ROF = 2/turn at same target. SS-N-2C ROF = 4/turn (all mounts) at same target. Uses Soviet Construction modifier (0.90) in damage point calculation. Range of 900 nm at 30 knots or 2500 nm at 12 knots. Poor sea boats. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 8 16 24 28 32 Surface Speed: 32 24 16 8 0 Sinks Arnala (USSR Petya III) class FFL ---------------------------- Displacement: 950 metric tons In Class: 8 Damage Points: 37 In Service: 1969 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 30 knots Propulsion: CODAG Crew: 100 Weapons: Total Mounts: 7 F/A(2)2 AK-276 // 1 Hawk Screech C/USSR 2 depth charge rails with 10 B-1 depth charges E/USSR 2F/2A(16)2 RBU 2500 with 5 salvoes E/USSR P&S(3)1 533mm torpedo tubes with 3 SET-65 F/USSR Sensors: Slim Net, Don 2 J/USSR Hercules M/USSR Remarks: Unit Name ---------------- P 68 Arnala P 69 Androth P 73 Anjadip P 74 Andaman P 75 Amini P 77 Kamorta P 78 Kadmath P 81 Katchal Export version of USSR Petya I. Internal depth charge rails. Also has two mine rails. Uses Soviet Construction modifier (0.90) in damage point calculation. Range of 450 nm at 29 knots or 4800 nm at 10 knots. Transferred in 1969, 1972 and 1975. New construction not converted Soviet units. One sister ship striken in 1986 and one in 1987. Being replaced by Khukri class. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 9 18 27 33 37 Surface Speed: 30 23 15 8 0 Sinks -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Wed Nov 14 12:29:23 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA11953; Wed, 14 Nov 90 12:29:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 12:29:23 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9011142029.AA11953@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #9 (msgs 14-17) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 14 Novemeber 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 9 First Message: 14 Messages: 4 Topics: (14) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (15) Where did my Hornets go? randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (16) Realtime vs. Think Time randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (17) Annex A, India (part 6) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 14 Nov 1990 12:09:38 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (14) Editorial New members added since last issue: gt3911b@prism.gatech.edu (Michael Andrew Duvernois) Since the SITREP is ostensibly a quarterly publication, you might be wondering if anything has come out since SITREP #5, which was dated July 1990. (Well, at least, I was wondering.) The latest word from GDW is that SITREP #6 has just gone to the printers. -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Nov 1990 23:03:20 CST From: randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Longshot) Subject: (15) Where Did My Hornets Go? Well, I was playing the scenario "Cutting the Noose" from the GIUK set on computer Harpoon. I foolishly trusted the computer when it said that my 24 Hornets, loaded for standoff (the only way to fly on this trip), were within striking range. So I sent them along. Before launch, however, they reached BINGO fuel, so I sent them back to base. But 7 of them splashed while the other 17 landed. Only, I never saw the surviving 17. I could not pull them up with the Ready Aircraft menu, nor did they show up as available resources. Where did they go? Is this a bug? Will it be fixed when I send Three-Sixty Soft my $5 and old disks for the upgrade? Randy -- Randy J. Ray University of Oklahoma, Norman Campus (405)/325-5370 !chinet!uokmax!randy randy@uokmax.uucp randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu "...and he who made kittens put snakes in the grass..." -- Jethro Tull -=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Nov 1990 23:18:29 CST From: randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Longshot) Subject: Real-time vs. time to think Summary: (16) Realtime vs. Think Time I have been designing a version of Harpoon to run under UNIX and X11R4. Since I have not advanced beyond the design stage yet, I thought I would ask a few questions: Do you prefer the real-time play of 360's version of Harpoon to the ability to plot out your moves more carefully? How important is it to have/not have automated patrols? Point defense? Is it easier to think of forces solely by group, or would you rather be able to control resources individually? A mix of the two? I enjoy Computer Harpoon a great deal, especially since have no real opponents around here whose schedule fits mine. However, some of it's features are pet peeves, and since I was already designing xharpoon before it came out, I am sustaining the project. All opinions welcome. Randy -- Randy J. Ray University of Oklahoma, Norman Campus (405)/325-5370 !chinet!uokmax!randy randy@uokmax.uucp randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu "...and he who made kittens put snakes in the grass..." -- Jethro Tull -=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=*-=* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 14 Nov 1990 12:09:30 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (17) Annex A, India (part 6) Another corvette, missile boat, minesweeper and Coast Guard patrol boat: Abhay (USSR Pauk) class FFL ----------------------- Displacement: 480 metric tons In Class: 2+? Damage Points: 22 In Service: 1989 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 34 knots Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 40 Weapons: Total Mounts: 11 A(R)1 AK-630 with 15 bursts // 1 Bass Tilt C/USSR F(1)1 AK-176 // 1 Bass Tilt C/USSR A(4)1 SA-N-5 with 4 Grail D/USSR 2 depth charge rails with 6 B-1 depth charges E/USSR special(5)2 RBU 1200 with 5 salvoes E/USSR 2PB/2SB(1)4 406mm torpedo tubes with 1 E40-75A F/USSR Sensors: Peel Cone, Spin Trough J/USSR Bull Horn, Rat Tail M/USSR Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- P ? Abhay 1989 P ? Ajay 1989 There is only one Bass Tilt director. Both the AK-630 and AK-176 are linked to it. SA-N-5 ROF = 4/turn (all mounts) at same target. Twelve manually reloaded SA-N-5 missiles. RBU 1200 fixed in train. Ship must point directly at target to fire RBUs. New variant sighted in 1990. Has 9 mounts. The 406mm torpedo tubes are replaced with P/S(2)2 533mm torpedo tubes with 2 SET-65 (F/USSR). Peel Cone replaced with Plank Shave (J/USSR). Rat Tail sonar removed. Uses Soviet Construction modifier (0.90) in damage point calculation. Has 50 tons of fuel giving a range of 2000 nm at 20 knots. Same hull as USSR Tarantul classes. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 5 11 16 19 22 Surface Speed: 34 26 17 9 0 Sinks Prachand (USSR Osa II) class PTM ---------------------------- Displacement: 215 metric tons In Class: 8 Damage Points: 10 In Service: 1976 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 36 knots Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 30 Weapons: Total Mounts: 6 F/A(2)2 AK-230 // 1 Drum Tilt C/USSR PB&SB(1)4 SS-N-2B with 1 Styx // 1 Square Tie D/USSR Sensors: Square Tie J/USSR Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- K 90 Prachand 1976 K 91 Pralaya 1976 K 92 Prabal 1976 K 93 Pratap 1976 K 94 Chamak 1976 K 95 Chapal 1976 K 96 Chapak 1976 K 97 Charag 1976 SS-N-2B ROF = 2/turn (all mounts) at same target. Uses Soviet Construction modifier (0.90) in damage point calculation. Range of 500 nm at 34 knots or 750 nm at 25 knots. To be equipped with modern EW system. To be eventually replaced by Nirvik (USSR Tarantul I) class. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 2 5 7 9 10 Surface Speed: 36 27 18 9 0 Sinks Pondicherry (USSR Natya I) class MS -------------------------------- Displacement: 650 metric tons In Class: 12 Damage Points: 21 In Service: 1978 Damage Mod: 0.75 Speed: 17 knots Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 60 Weapons: Total Mounts: 6 (M 67-72: 8) P/S(2)2 2M-8 25mm/60 C/USSR F/A(2)2 AK-230 // 1 Drum Tilt C/USSR P/S(4)2 SA-N-5 with 4 Grail (M 67-72) D/USSR special(5)2 RBU 1200 with 5 salvoes E/USSR Sensors: Don 2 J/USSR Tamir 5N M/USSR high frequency minehunting sonar - Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- M 61 Pondicherry 1978 M 62 Porbandar 1978 M 63 Bedi 1979 M 64 Bhavnagar 1979 M 65 Alleppy 1980 M 66 Ratnagiri 1980 M 67 Karwar 1986 M 68 Cannanore 1987 M 69 Caddalore 1987 M 70 Kakinada 1987 M 71 Kozhikode 1988 M 72 Konkan 1988 The 2M-8 25mm/60 operate in local control. Units M 67-72 have 8 manually reloaded SA-N-5 missiles. RBU 1200 fixed in train. Ship must point directly at target to fire RBUs. Uses Soviet Construction modifier (0.90) and modifier for aluminum/steel alloy hull (0.75) in damage point calculation. Can also carry mines. Range of 1800 nm at 16 knots or 5200 nm at 10 knots. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 5 10 16 19 21 Surface Speed: 17 13 9 4 0 Sinks Vikram class (Coast Guard) PB -------------------------- Displacement: 940 In Class: 6+1 Damage Points: 40 In Service: 1983 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 22 Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 74 Weapons: Total Mounts: 2 F(1)1 40mm/60 C/International Aft Pad(1)1: 1 Chetak B/India Sensors: 2 Decca Series J/UK Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- P 33 Vikram 1983 P 34 Visaya 1984 P 35 Veera 1986 P 36 Varuna 1988 P 37 Vijira 1988 P 38 Vivek 1989 P 39 Vigraha 1990 Coast Guard patrol boat. The 40mm/60 operates in local control. Has stabilizers. However, cannot operate helicopter in heavy weather due to rolling. Has pollution control equipment, diving gear, firefighting monitors. Has 108 tons of fuel giving range of 3500 nm at 14 knots. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 10 20 30 36 40 Surface Speed: 22 17 11 6 0 Sinks -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Fri Nov 16 13:24:27 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA13671; Fri, 16 Nov 90 13:24:27 -0800 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 90 13:24:27 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9011162124.AA13671@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #10 (msgs 18-20) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 16 November 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 10 First Message: 18 Messages: 3 Topics: (18) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (19) Re: Real vs. Think Time tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (20) Annex A, India (Part 7) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri 16 Nov 1990 12:22:54 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (18) Editorial New members added since last issue: barry_ferg@mtsg.ubc.ca (Barry Ferg) This finishes up the ships of the Indian Navy. Aircraft (Annex B) and equipment from other annexes will follow to round out the Indian Navy. -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 14 Nov 1990 13:09:57 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (19) Re: Real vs. Think Time In (16) Realtime vs. Think Time, randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu writes: >I have been designing a version of Harpoon to run under UNIX and X11R4. Finally, it looks like someone will do what I (and probably many others) have thought about doing, but never had the time to do it. My conception was to use color workstations on a LAN, with players in different rooms. > Do you prefer the real-time play of 360's version of > Harpoon to the ability to plot out your moves > more carefully? I have never actually played Computer Harpoon. My impression is that it handles things on a higher level than normal Harpoon using task forces. It handles the low level details, with some provision to tinker. I think both the task force and the tactical level can be fun. If I only could choose one, I would prefer to play at the lower (tactical) level of normal Harpoon. While the game is going at the tactical level, time should be real-time or near real-time. However, before the game starts, though, I would like to be able to make up detailed stored plans. When I thought about doing my version, I thought about the long periods of time that might transpire on patrol. Under those circumstances, it would be nice to allow the game go faster than real-time. For example, you are on ASW patrol. You plot your ship's patrol path and then let the game zip forward until detection or until you get attacked. A problem exists with command load. Obviously, a person who has to control twice as many units as another person will be at a disadvantage, if he has to order many units around in real-time. Now this is true to life, but the uneven load might come about simply because not enough players were around. I didn't want a player to be penalized under those circumstances. I thought of various ways to fix this, but they mostly boil down to introducing limits on how many orders an be given in a time period. Crew quality and CIC capabilities were to be modeled by introducing delays in orders. (Aegis in automatic mode becomes a real time saver.) > How important is it to have/not have automated patrols? > Point defense? If you play at the task force levels, this is a must. The admiral shouldn't have to push all the buttons himself. Even on the tactical level, you might want to have "standard" plans already made up. > Is it easier to think of forces solely by group, or would > you rather be able to control resources individually? > A mix of the two? At the tactical level one person would control only a few ships, so resources could be controlled individually. The task force level game must put limitations on how much you can interfere with the lower levels. -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri 16 Nov 1990 12:27:47 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (20) Annex A, India (Part 7) Here are the amphibious ships and auxiliaries. This wraps up the ships of the Indian Navy. Next installment gets into the aircraft. Magar class LST ----------- Displacement: 3200 metric tons In Class: 2+6 Damage Points: 116 In Service: 1987 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 15 knots Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 136 Weapons: Total Mounts: 9 2F/2A(1)4 40mm/60 C/International 4 LCVP A/India Aft Pad(1)1: 1 Sea King Mk42C B/India Sensors: Navigation Radar J/International Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- L 20 Magar 1987 L 23 Gharial 1989 The 40mm/60 operate under local control. The 40mm/60 arcs estimated. Sea Truck type LCVPs carried in davits. No information available on LCVPs, use information provided for UK LCVP Mk 4. Unknown troop and cargo capacity. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 29 58 87 104 116 Surface Speed: 15 11 8 4 0 Sinks Ghorpad (USSR Polnocny C) class LST ------------------------------- Displacement: 750 metric tons In Class: 8 Damage Points: 31 In Service: 1975 Damage Mod: 1.00 Speed: 18 knots Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 42 Weapons: Total Mounts: 4 F/A(2)2 AK-230 // 1 Drum Tilt C/USSR F(8)2 rocket launchers - Sensors: Kivach (L 18,19,21) J/USSR Don-2 (others) J/USSR Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- L 14 Ghorpad 1975 L 15 Kesari 1975 L 16 Shardul 1975 L 17 Sharabh 1976 L 18 Cheetah 1984 L 19 Mahish 1985 L 21 Guldar 1986 L 22 Kumbhir 1986 Export version of USSR Polnocny C. Rockets for shore bombardment only. L 18 and on have helicopter pad (but no hangar) amidships. Uses Soviet Construction modifier (0.90) in damage point calculation. Range of 900 nm at 17 knots or 1500 nm at 14 knots. Carries 140 troops and 350 tons cargo. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 8 15 23 28 31 Surface Speed: 18 14 9 5 0 Sinks UK LCVP Mk4 LCVP ----------- Displacement: 10 metric tons In Class: 4 Damage Points: 1 In Service: 1989 Damage Mod: 0.75 Speed: 16 kts Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 3 Weapons: Total Mounts: 2 F(2)1 7.62mm GPMG - Sensors: None Remarks: Landing craft carried by the Vikraat. Uses modifier for aluminum construction (0.75) in damage point calculation. Unloaded speed is 20 kts. Range is 200 nm at 12 knots. Carries 35 troops or 5.5 metric tons of cargo. Can be fitted with top. At least 21 more in UK service. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 1 Surface Speed: 16 Sinks Rajaba Gan Palan class AO ---------------------- Displacement: 7000 metric tons In Class: 0+1+1 Damage Points: 162 In Service: ? Damage Mod: 0.75 Speed: 20 knots Propulsion: Diesel Crew: 197 Weapons: Total Mounts: 4 2F/A(1)3 40mm/60 C/International Forward Pad(1)1: 1 Sea King Mk 42C B/India Sensors: Navigation Radar J/International Remarks: Unit Name Status -------------------------------------------------- A ? Rajaba Gan Palan ordered 1987 under construction Modified Deepak class with repair capability. The 40mm/60 operate under local control. Standard displacement estimated from full load displacement. Uses auxiliary modifier (0.75) for damage point calculation. The 40mm/60 arcs estimated. Range of 10,000 nm at 16 knots. Carries 14,200 cubic meters of diesel and aviation fuel, 2250 cubic meters of fresh water, 2170 cubic meters of ammunition, provisions and spares. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 41 81 122 146 162 Surface Speed: 20 15 10 5 0 Sinks Deepak class AO ------------ Displacement: 6785 metric tons In Class: 2 Damage Points: 159 In Service: 1972 Damage Mod: 0.75 Speed: 20 Propulsion: Steam Crew: 169 Weapons: Total Mounts: 6 (A 57: 5) P/S(1)2 20mm/80 (A 50) C/International 2F/A(1)3 40mm/60 (A 50) C/International 2F/2A(1)4 40mm/60 (A 57) C/International Forward Pad(1)1: 1 Sea King Mk 42C B/India Sensors: Navigation radar J/International Remarks: Unit Name In Service ---------------------------------- A 50 Deepak 1972 A 57 Shakti 1976 The 20mm/80 and 40mm/60 operate in local control. Uses auxiliary modifier (0.75) for damage point calculation. The 20mm/80 and 40mm/60 arcs are estimated. Helicopter type is estimated. Range of 5500 nm at 19 knots. Telescoping hanger for helicopter. Two liquid stations per side using British style rigs. Carries 16,624 metric tons fuel oil, 1280 metric tons diesel fuel, 1495 metric tons aviation fuel, 812 metric tons fresh water and some dry cargo. Damage and Speed Breakdown: Damage Points: 0 40 79 119 143 159 Surface Speed: 20 15 10 5 0 Sinks -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Mon Nov 26 14:42:42 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA18186; Mon, 26 Nov 90 14:42:42 -0800 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 14:42:42 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9011262242.AA18186@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #11 (msgs 21-23) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 26 November 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 11 First Message: 21 Messages: 3 Topics: (21) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (22) Re: Color vs Utility d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (23) Midway 2000 tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 26 Nov 1990 09:51:25 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (21) Editorial New members added since last issue: jan.wolitzky@att.com (Jan I. Wolitzky) If you didn't know, the Amiga version of Computer Harpoon is already available. It looks like Computer Harpoon is almost out for the Macintosh computer. Various software houses are advertising it in computer magazines. Local stores say "in a few weeks". My unscientific survey turned up prices as low as $39. If anyone out in netland actually has seen the Mac version, inquiring minds (and game addicts) want to know your impressions ... Now does anyone have a clue to what happened to the long awaited GDW "South Atlantic War" (Falklands module) ? -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Nov 90 12:45:19 MET From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se Subject: Re: Color vs Utility (Was: Realtime vs Thinktime) Summary: (22) Re: Color vs Utility > From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) > In (16) Realtime vs. Think Time, randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu writes: > > >I have been designing a version of Harpoon to run under UNIX and X11R4. > > Finally, it looks like someone will do what I (and probably many > others) have thought about doing, but never had the time to do it. My > conception was to use color workstations on a LAN, with players in > different rooms. One little thing about color. Color will reduce the number of sites that will be able to use the programs quite drastically. For example: Here on chalmers we've got somewhere above 50 sparcstations that are used for cad, and about an equal number of BW sun3 and ibm-rt with X. We non-staff have access to 10 sun3 and 10 rt, and 1 (one) sun3 with color. Even the secretary of the computer centre's got a spark, but not us poor students. If xharp is to be dependent on color, It'll be viritually useless for us (beating up the computer is no sport:). I'm not sure how widespread color X terminals are at universities and other places in the US, but here in Sweden, we are lucky to have even BW X. The ideal solution would be to make color preferrable but not required. Different range circles could be illustrated by dots and dashes of different types. Different nationalities could be shown with different patterns on the units. IMHO, X has quite adequate resolution for this. -bertil- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 12 Nov 1990 14:23:31 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (23) Midway 2000 Here are some impressions from the last time I played Captain's Edition Harpoon. I played "Midway 2000", which is the largest scenario. But I can hardly claim to be an expert so take what I say with a grain of salt. First of all, the fleets provided only represent a small portion of what might be involved in the North Atlantic/Norwegian Sea area. (I wish they included more ships and planes!) As a result, I am not sure how things scale up with a more realistically sized forces. It seems to me the dummy system doesn't deceive people very much, especially in the large scenarios. In those scenarios, the ratio of dummies to real units is pretty low. As a result, it's not that hard to find the enemy. (My impression was that satellites, SOSUS, strategic intelligence, etc. aren't that good.) The NATO player has to keep almost everything close to his carrier, maybe even in the same task force (TF). This puts the forces under the protective CAP to scare off Soviet search planes and gives maximum SAM protection from the inevitable mass Backfire raids. Given the number of ships in the game, there's not much left over after you outfit your carrier TF. Dancing around in many small, far-flung TFs seems like a way to be picked off piecemeal. The P-3s and S-3s can make mincemeat out of unprotected Soviet submarines. Don't let those submarines get too close to your carrier! Carrier air can whittle away any unprotected Soviet surface TF. No point in letting the Soviets get close enough for SSMs though. The Soviet Backfire fleet is powerful. But against a fully protected carrier, not much will get through. The Tbilisi is very useful for providing escort, to keep the Hornets and Tomcats from interfering too much. Since the Backfire uses long-range ASMs, only CAP planes get to engage before firing ASMs. DLI planes only get to shoot at the missiles, not the launch platform and only get to be used against a single attack. But since CAP flights only get 1 plane for each 4-plane flight into any attack (due to keeping them constantly on station), the Tbilisi escort should be sufficient. To prevent the NATO player from exclusively using DLI, threaten to attack several times. When taking on the carrier doesn't seem feasible, attack bases (grind Bodo into rubble) and any exposed surface TF. If the Soviet submarines can get in close, they can spot for you (to call Backfires) or wreck havoc themselves. However, the Soviet submarines seem to get picked off at an alarming rate. Sometimes you can extend CAP to keep the P-3s away. Other times it's sort of a guessing game. Whenever you threaten his carrier with Backfires, the NATO player has to put Hornets on CAP or DLI. If you don't threaten enough, the Hornets join with the Intruders and kill any unprotected surface targets. But you need the Tbilisi's escort to make the Backfire threat credible against the carrier. This may not allow enough for CAP and DLI to protect itself and nearby units. The Soviet surface fleet has to try to stay alive long enough to do something. Partly, they provide SAM protection for the Tbilisi. Also, they provide a pretty good missile punch. But getting them close enough to use SSMs is the hard part. -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Wed Nov 28 10:39:34 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA20063; Wed, 28 Nov 90 10:39:34 -0800 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 10:39:34 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9011281839.AA20063@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #12 (msgs 24-27) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 28 November 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 12 First Message: 24 Messages: 4 Topics: (24) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (25) This MUST be a bug randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (26) Bugs and Things tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (27) Annex B, India (part 1) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 27 Nov 1990 12:05:44 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (24) Editorial New members added since last issue: patrik@victor.se (Patrik Andrease) gkoller@vndc98.enet.dec.com (Gerhard Koller) -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Nov 1990 19:57:50 CST From: randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Longshot) Subject: (25) This MUST be a bug While playing "The Duel" in the GIUK battleset of Computer Harpoon, I ran into what must be a bug. Early on, my Ticonderoga-class ship had a breakdown of a launcher. Later, when missles were incoming, despite having all air-search radar on, I could only watch as the missles pounded my ships, with no SAM's being fired. At this point, I had successfully sunk all 12 surface ships without being fired upon (I figure these birds came from one of the subs), so I had not fired a single SAM yet. Full magazines, and no point-defense. Surely a single launcher breakdown on a VLS ship would not disable the entire air-defense? Even if the Aegis system were not operational, the other ships shill have weapons directors and radars. It was very aggravat- ing to have managed to sink all 12 surface ships at long range, then get punked on by lack of point-defense. Randy -- Randy J. Ray University of Oklahoma, Norman Campus (405)/325-5370 !chinet!uokmax!randy randy@uokmax.uucp randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu Virus: A program designed for maximum portability. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 28 Nov 1990 09:05:15 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (26) Bugs and Things Recently, I got a chance to fool around with a friend's copy of Computer Harpoon (IBM PC version 1.2). I was favorably impressed with most of the game. Of course, I have some complaints even after my short exposure (though I don't know anything about the bug Randy mentioned): One bug we noticed was that ASW aircraft in a patrol sector would drop sonobouys regardless of whether it was over land or not. Also, it seemed to me there was no way to check environmental conditions (predicted or actual) when setting a group's movement orders. (I wanted to know how deep the water was.) Also, the group's movement orders seemed to only allow you to specify things in terms of distance/position and not in terms of time. (e.g., stop and listen on sonar for 5 minutes and then resume moving). Finally, they ought to rewrite the (now) useless Operations Manual, which was superceded by the small print 1.1 Manual. -ted "Harpoon IS Larry Bond ..." - back of the Computer Harpoon box Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 28 Nov 1990 10:24:49 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: Annex B, India (part 1) Here are the helicopters in use by the Indian Navy. Next time: fixed wing aircraft. Chetak ASW ------ Cannon ATA: 0 Def ATA: 1.5(1.5) Sensors: None, MAD can be carried as a store Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 106(0.4) 119(0.5) - Medium 106(0.4) 119(0.5) - Ceiling: 3048 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 325 nm Internal Fuel: 457 kg Inflight Refuel?: N Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: None Payload: 500 kg * 2 A.244s (292 nm) * 1 A.244s, MAD (292 nm) Remarks: Helicopter. Indian version of French SA.319B Alouette III. In service: 18. Radar contact size is Small. Payload capacity estimated from attack helicopter version. Sample loadouts given above. Type Hang Weight (kg) Annex --------------------------------------- A.244s (torpedo) 235 F/Italy MAD Pod ? - Hardpoints: FUS1 FUS1 Rating (kg): 250 250 ------------------------------------ A.244s 1 1 MAD Pod 1 1 Sea King Mk 42A ASW --------------- Cannon ATA: 0 Def ATA: 1.5(1.5) Sensors: AW.391 radar, ESM, Type 195 dipping sonar Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 112(0.5) 184(0.8) - Medium 112(0.5) 184(0.8) - Ceiling: 3087 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 662 nm Internal Fuel: 2904 kg Inflight Refuel?: N Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: None Payload: 1134 kg * 4 Mk 11 DC (595 nm) * 4 A.244s (595 nm) Remarks: Helicopter. Indian version of UK Sea King HAS.Mk 5. In service: 3. Radar contact size is Small. Sample loadouts given above. Type Hang Weight (kg) Annex ---------------------------------------- Mk 11 DC (depth charge) 145 E /UK A.244s (torpedo) 235 F /Italy Hardpoints: FUS1 FUS1 Rating (kg): 500 500 ------------------------------------ Mk 11 DC 2 2 A.244s 2 2 DA Errata: The listed payload capacity for UK HAS.5 is too small to carry the listed loadouts. Sea King Mk 42B ASW --------------- Cannon ATA: 0 Def ATA: 1.5(1.5) Sensors: MEL Super Searcher radar, ESM Type 2069 dipping sonar, 16 mini-sonobouys, MAD Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 112(0.5) 131(0.5) - Medium 112(0.5) 131(0.5) - Ceiling: 3087 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 662 nm Internal Fuel: 2904 kg Inflight Refuel?: N Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: None Payload: 1200 kg * 4 Mk 11 DC (596 nm) * 4 A.244s (596 nm) * 2 Sea Eagle (596 nm) Remarks: Helicopter. Indian version of UK Advanced Sea King HAS.Mk 6. In service: 10+20. Radar contact size is Small. Sonobouy capacity is a guess. Can carry F-size or smaller sonobouys. Assume UK SSQ-904/905 and SSQ-906/907 can be used. Payload estimated from Sea Eagle weight. Sample loadouts given above. Type Hang Weight (kg) Annex ---------------------------------------- Mk 11 DC (depth charge) 145 E /UK A.244s (torpedo) 235 F /Italy Sea Eagle (ASM) 600 G4/UK Hardpoints: FUS1 FUS1 Rating (kg): 600 600 ------------------------------------ Mk 11 DC 2 2 A.244s 2 2 Sea Eagle 1 1 Improvements from UK Sea King HAS.5 model include uprated transmission, all-composite rotor blades, improved sonobouy processor (UK AQS-902 LAPADS). ESM features may not be same as UK model. DA Errata: UK Sea King HAS.6 entry should list dipping sonar as Type 2069 rather than Type 2096. Sea King Mk 42C Transport --------------- Cannon ATA: 0 Def ATA: 1.5(1.5) Sensors: None Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 112(0.5) 124(0.5) - Medium 112(0.5) 124(0.5) - Ceiling: 3050 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 664 nm Internal Fuel: 2904 kg Inflight Refuel?: N Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: cabin mounted 7.62 mm GPMG Payload: 2727 kg * None Remarks: Helicopter. Indian version of UK Sea King HC.Mk 4. In service: 6. Radar contact size is Small. Can carry 22 troops or 2727 kg cargo. Ka-25 Hormone A ASW, Reece --------------- Cannon ATA: 0 Def ATA: 1.5(1.5) Sensors: Mushroom radar, FLIR Rat Tail dipping sonar, 3 sonobouys, MAD Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 105(0.4) 115(0.5) - Medium 105(0.4) 115(0.5) - Ceiling: 3500 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 216 nm Internal Fuel: ? kg Inflight Refuel?: N Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: None Payload: 600 kg * 2 B-1 DC (194 nm) * 2 E45-75A (194 nm) Remarks: Helicopter. USSR Ka-25 Hormone A. In service: 5. Radar contact size is Small. E45-75A hang weight estimated. Sample loadouts given above. Type Hang Weight (kg) Annex -------------------------------------- B-1 (depth charge) 166 E/USSR E45-75A (torpedo) 300 F/USSR Hardpoints: FUS1 FUS1 Rating (kg): 300 300 ------------------------------------ B-1 1 1 E45-75A 1 1 Cannot hover or dip at night. DA Errata: DA should list Rat Tail as dipping sonar type. Ka-27 Helix A Type ------------- Cannon ATA: 0 Def ATA: 1.5(1.5) Sensors: Mushroom radar, RWR Helix dipping sonar, 12 sonobouys, MAD Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 124(0.5) 135(0.6) - Medium 124(0.5) 135(0.6) - Ceiling: 5000 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 432 nm Internal Fuel: ? kg Inflight Refuel?: N Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: None Payload: 800 kg * 2 B-1 DC (389 nm) * 2 E45-75A (389 nm) Remarks: Helicopter. USSR Ka-27 Helix A. In service: 1+8. Radar contact size is Small. Radar type unknown, use Mushroom (L/USSR) until further data is available. E45-75A hang weight estimated. Sample loadouts given above. Type Hang Weight (kg) Annex -------------------------------------- B-1 (depth charge) 166 E/USSR E45-75A (torpedo) 300 F/USSR Hardpoints: FUS1 FUS1 Rating (kg): 400 400 ------------------------------------ B-1 1 1 E45-75A 1 1 -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Mon Dec 3 09:41:25 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA24945; Mon, 3 Dec 90 09:41:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 09:41:25 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9012031741.AA24945@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #13 (msgs 28-31) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 3 December 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 13 First Message: 28 Messages: 4 Topics: (28) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (29) Annex B, India (part 2) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (30) Other Data for Indian Navy tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (31) Indian Navy Notes tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 3 Dec 1990 08:05:59 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (28) Editorial Due to advertising on net news, there has been a recent surge in new signups. Hopefully, there will be lots of new interesting discusions. New members since last issue: ali@interlan.interlan.com (Shaheen H. Ali) cb@decvax.dec.com (Charlie Briggs) rick@wam.umd.edu (Frederick E. Brown) plague@milton.u.washington.edu (Jack Brown) rogerc%s62.prime.com@relay.cs.net (Roger Christie) lcline@sequent.com (Larry Cline) mc9e@dale.acc.virginia.edu (Matt Crispin) sandro@lhc.nlm.nih.gov (Michael D'Alessandro) deichman@cod.nosc.mil (Shane D. Deichman) keithgar@wpi.wpi.edu (Keith E. Garrant) david.gelhar@dartmouth.edu (David E. Gelhar) timham@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Timothy John Hammon) aok@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Brian Jacobs) os9regan@gkcl.ists.ca (Regan Johnson) kato@pawl.rpi.edu (Mark A. Kadas) dank@calvin.usc.edu (Dan King) ggroup4@hydra.unm.edu (Taki Kogoma) clee@sc9.intel.com (Cecil Lee) robert@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Robert Lindsay) steve@pinet.aip.org (Stephen M. LuShing) jmacdon@cg-atla.agfa.com (Jeff MacDonald) bruce@bonnie-tcp.astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Macintosh) am66@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu (Alexander Maldutis) manes@vger.nsu.edu (Mark D. Manes) robb@hpdml29.hp.com (Robb Mankin) hmueller@wfsc4.tamu.edu (Hal Mueller) taipan@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Kevin Ng) evil@bbn.com (Dave Nye) eco8941@ecostat.aau.dk (Povl H. Pedersen) prm@ecn.purdue.edu (Phil) rmz@ifi.uio.no (Bjorn Remseth) orovner%sdcc13@ucsd.edu (Oleg Rovner) klaus@sequent.com (Klaus Ruff) gregs@meaddata.com (Greg Smith) shovic%solomon.uucp@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (John C. Shovic) esmythe@atl.dnet.ge.com (Erich J. Smythe) phil@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au (Phil Stocks) artabar@mtus5.cts.mtu.edu (Andy Tabar) stahara%xlate.hsc.usc.edu@usc.edu (Stanley Tahara) stosc::tcomeau@scivax.stsci.edu (Teela Brown's Younger Brother) sitout@extro.ucc.su.oz.au (Simon Tout) ronv@owlnet.rice.edu (Ron Vutpakdi) tom@bears.ucsb.edu (Tom Weinstein) west@hsa.on.ca (Tom West) caw@miroc.chi.il.us (Christopher A. Wichura) wilde@hri.com (Scott Wilde) stwong@girtab.usc.edu (Stephen Wong) rsy@iwtil.att.com (Robert Yen) zarda@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Ken Zarda) This issue wraps up the series on the Indian Navy. -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 3 Dec 1990 08:54:26 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (29) Annex B, India (part 2) Here are the fixed wing aircraft used by the Indian Navy. Sea Harrier FRS.Mk 51 Attack --------------------- Cannon ATA: 3 Def ATA: 3.5(1.5) Sensors: Blue Fox radar, RWR, Ballistic Bombsight Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 650(2.7) 650(2.7) - Medium 450(1.9) 583(2.4) - High 450(1.9) 516(2.2) - Ceiling: 15,600 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 690 nm Internal Fuel: 2287 kg Inflight Refuel?: Y Drop Tank Fuel Weight Additional Range -------------------------------------------------------- 100 Imperial Gallon 363 kg 55 nm 190 Imperial Gallon 690 kg 104 nm Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: 2 30mm Aden Mk 5 Payload: 3629 kg (STOL), 2268 kg (VTOL) STOL loads: * 7 454 kg bombs (621 nm) * 5 BL755 (621 nm) * 6 Matra 155 (621 nm) * 2 Sea Eagle, 2 Magic 2 (621 nm) * 2 190 Imp G Drop Tank, 3 454 kg bombs (808 nm) * 2 190 Imp G Drop Tank, 3 BL755 (808 nm) * 2 190 Imp G Drop Tank, 2 Magic 2 (808 nm) VTOL loads: * 5 454 kg bombs (300 nm) * 4 454 kg bombs (424 nm) * 3 454 kg bombs (547 nm) * 5 BL755 (546 nm) * 4 BL755 (621 nm) * 6 Matra 155 (615 nm) * 4 Matra 155 (621 nm) * 2 Sea Eagle, 2 Magic 2 (542 nm) * 2 Sea Eagle (591 nm) * 2 100 Imp G Drop Tank, 2 Magic 2 (720 nm) Remarks: V/STOL. Indian version of UK Sea Harrier FRS.Mk 1. In service: 14+10+10. Radar contact size is Small. Uses endurance modifiers for NATO Jet. When taking off vertically, special restrictions apply. Payload is limited to 2268 kg. The total of internal fuel and payload is limited to 3376 kg. If full load of internal fuel is not carried, scale cruise range proportionally. VTOL operation may be necessary from damaged flight deck. Sample loadouts given above. Type Hang Weight (kg) Annex ----------------------------------------- Magic 2 (IR AAM) 90 H /France 454 kg Bomb (Mk 13/18) 454 G1/UK BL755 (cluster bomb) 273 G1/UK Matra 155 (Rocket Pod) 185 G1/France Sea Eagle (ASM) 600 G4/UK 100 Imp G Drop Tank 363 - 190 Imp G Drop Tank 690 - Hardpoints: UW2 UW1 CL UW1 UW2 Rating (kg): 454 907 907 907 454 ----------------------------------------------------------- Magic 2 1 - - - 1 454 kg Bomb 1 2 1 2 1 BL755 1 1 1 1 1 Matra 155 1 2 - 2 1 Sea Eagle - 1 - 1 - 100 Imp G Drop Tank - 1 - 1 - 190 Imp G Drop Tank - 1 - 1 - Il-38 May ASW --------- Cannon ATA: 0 Def ATA: 0.5(0.5) Sensors: Wet Eye radar, ESM, basic bombsight, 50 sonobouys, MAD Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 216(0.9) 315(1.3) - Medium 216(0.9) 348(1.5) - High 380(1.6) 380(1.6) - Ceiling: 9500 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 3900 nm Internal Fuel: 24,000 kg Inflight Refuel?: N Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: None Payload: 3600 kg * 12 B-1 DC (3510 nm) * 6 E45-75A torpedoes (3510 nm) Remarks: USSR Il-38 May. In service: 3. Radar contact size is Large. Changes altitude as a "large 4-engine" aircraft. Uses endurance modifiers for turboprops. Payload estimated. E45-75A hang weight estimated. Sample loadouts given above. Type Hang Weight (kg) Annex --------------------------------------- B-1 (depth charge) 166 E /USSR E45-75A (torpedo) 300 F /USSR Hardpoints: Wpn Bay Rating (kg): 3600 ------------------------------- B-1 DC 12 E45-75A 6 Tu-142M Bear F ASW -------------- Cannon ATA: 2 (tail) Def ATA: 0.5(0.5) Sensors: Wet Eye radar, ESM, 100 sonobouys, MAD Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 321(1.3) 450(1.9) - Medium 321(1.3) 473(2.0) - High 500(2.1) 500(2.1) - Ceiling: 12,500 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 8900 nm Internal Fuel: 59,501 kg Inflight Refuel?: Y Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: 2 NR-23 23mm in tail Payload: 8000 kg * 8 B-1 DC (8010 nm) * 8 E45-75A torpedoes (8010 nm) Remarks: USSR Tu-142M Bear F. In service: 2+6. Radar contact size is Large. Changes altitude as a "large 4-engine" aircraft. Uses endurance modifiers for turboprops. E45-75A hang weight estimated. Sample loadouts given above. Type Hang Weight (kg) Annex -------------------------------------- E45-75A (torpedo) 300 F/USSR B-1 (depth charge) 166 E/USSR Hardpoints: Wpn Bay Rating (kg): 8000 ------------------------------- E45-75A 8 B-1 8 Dornier 228-202 Reece, Transport --------------- Cannon ATA: 0 Def ATA: 0.5(0.5) Sensors: Surface-Search Radar Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 180(0.8) 200(0.8) - Medium 180(0.8) 231(1.0) - High 231(1.0) 231(1.0) - Ceiling: 10,000 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 600 nm Internal Fuel: 1500 kg Inflight Refuel?: N Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: None Payload: 1000 kg * None Remarks: FRG Dornier 228-202 equipped for maritime surveillance and utility duties. In service: 4+20. Radar contact size is Small. Changes altitude as "other" aircraft. Uses endurance modifiers for turboprops. Use "SS Radar" (Annex L/Intl) for radar type. Some performance data and internal fuel estimated. Can carry an estimated 10 passengers in addition to crew or about 1000 kg in cargo. BN-42B/T Maritime Defender Recce, Attack -------------------------- Cannon ATA: 0 Def ATA: 0.5(0.5) Sensors: Bendix 1400 radar Performance: Speed: Knots (nm/phase) ---------- Throttle Setting -------------- Altitude Cruise Military Afterburner ----------------------------------------------------------- VLow/Low 150(0.6) 172(0.7) - Medium 150(0.6) 172(0.7) - High 172(0.7) 172(0.7) - Ceiling: 10,000 meters Endurance: Cruise Range: 362 nm Internal Fuel: ? kg Inflight Refuel?: N Ordnance Loadouts: Cannon: None Payload: 1043 kg * 6 250 lb bombs (326 nm) * 2 500 lb bombs (326 nm) * 4 Matra 155 (326 nm) Remarks: UK Britten-Norman Maritime Defender equiped for maritime surveillance and light attack. In service: 12. Radar contact size is small. Changes altitude as "other" aircraft. Uses endurance modifiers for turboprop. Use "SS Radar" (L/Intl) information for Bendix 1400 radar. Some performance data estimated. Use US Mk81 and Mk82 bomb information for the 250 lb and 500 lb bombs. Sample loadouts given above. Type Hang Weight (kg) Annex ----------------------------------------------------- 250 lb Bomb 137 G1/US (use Mk81 info) 500 lb Bomb 259 G1/US (use Mk82 info) Matra 155 (Rocket Pod) 185 G1/France Hardpoints: UW2 UW1 UW1 UW2 Rating (kg): 204 318 318 204 --------------------------------------------------- 250 lb Bomb 1 2 2 1 500 lb Bomb - 1 1 - Matra 155 1 1 1 1 -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 3 Dec 1990 08:54:21 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (30) Other Data for Indian Navy Not much is published about real systems performance. So most of this is a guess based on comparing similar models made by other countries. Annex F Country Name Eff. Speed Dist/ % Hit Warh. ----Damage---- Range Turn Wt. vs sub vs ship ----------------------------------------------------------------------- India NST-58 5 nm 40 kts .33 nm .60 34 kg 17 - Launch Diam. Remarks Plat. (mm) ------------------------------- surf, air 324 Annex J Country Name ------Range (nm)------ Pd Funct. Large Small VSmall -------------------------------------------------------------- India Bharat 1245 30 20 9 .70 SS India RALW-02 150 100 47 .80 AS, SS India RALW-04 200 133 63 .75 AS USSR Positive E 75 50 24 .80 AS Annex L Country Name ------Range (nm)------ Pd Funct. Large Small VSmall -------------------------------------------------------------- Intl SS Radar 48 32 15 .70 SS Annex M Country Name Type CZ Active Pass. Active Pass. Plat. Remarks Cap. Range Range Pd Pd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- India APSOH H - 6 nm 3 nm .70 .60 surf -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 3 Dec 1990 08:54:16 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (31) Indian Navy Notes For the future, India has a number of projects under development. A conventionally powered version of the French Charles de Gaulle carrier is being designed. A follow on to the Shishumar class SS has been planned using the IKL design that was offered to Australia. Plans call for 4 to be constructed. A follow on for the Godavari class FF has been ordered. This new class (currently called "Project 15") will have 6 ships. India plans to license build 10 minesweepers of some Western European design. A new LSD is in the design stage. A new class of oiler is under construction. The Coast Guard has ordered a new license built patrol boat of South Korean design. This design was chosen over an enhanced Vikram PB class design. The following sources were consulted for this article series: Combat Fleets of the World, 1990-1991 (CFW) Harpoon 1990 Data Annex (DA) Encyclopaedia of Modern Aircraft Armaments (EMAA) Modern Naval Combat (MNC) World Naval Weapon Systems, 1989-1990 (WNWS) information from the net posters -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Tue Dec 4 12:44:05 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA01308; Tue, 4 Dec 90 12:44:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Dec 90 12:44:05 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9012042044.AA01308@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #14 (msgs 32-35) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 4 Decemeber 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 14 First Message: 32 Messages: 4 Topics: (32) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (33) 16 Inch Guns stosc::tcomeau@scivax.stsci.edu (34) PBeM Experience stosc::tcomeau@scivax.stsci.edu (35) Disappearing Aircraft bruce@bonnie-tcp.astro.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 4 Dec 1990 10:07:58 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (32) Editorial New members since last issue: aaalexis@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Andrew A. Alexis) lbo@rci.dk (Lars Boye) mpc@apldbio.com (Morgan Conrad) neil@progress.com (Neil Galarneau) dgil@pa.reuter.com (Dave Gillett) u107340@lanl.gov (Walter J. Hansen) well!hrh@apple.com (Harry Henderson) hiebert@src.honeywell.com (Jim Hiebert) carlton@apollo.hp.com (Carlton B. Hommel) jch@jargon.whoi.edu (Jon Howland) uunet!ingr!b17d!jaj!jeff_hp (Jeffrey A. Johnson) kitchel@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Sid Kitchel) lair@midway.uchicago.edu (Scott Allen Laird) malloy@nprdc.navy.mil (Sean Malloy) em31+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eric Andrew Morgan) out@cs.utwente.nl (Dirk Jan Out) jmp124@psuvm.psu.edu (Jim Pyke) robinro@ism.isc.com (Robin D. Roberts) edson@rand.org (Edson Smith) My workstation suffered a disk failure yesterday (December 3). Some mail was lost. However, most was successfully delivered. (I am not sure exactly how much as the mail log was lost!) If you think you are missing mail from me (like yesterday's v3 #13 issue), please wait a couple of days. If it still has not shown up, then send mail to "cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu" with the subject line "resend request" and I will send you another copy. Some people have asked whether this mailing list ought to be turned into a newsgroup. Currently, it does have high enough membership to justify it, but traffic is too low. If higher traffic and high membership are sustained for some period, then we will consider switching over. Some people have complained about the back issues of the current volume I send out to new members. The current volume is rather large. The reason I do that is that only previous volumes are available at the archive. Also it gives new members a sense of what's going on. If you have an opinion, please tell me by sending to the administrative address. -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 1990 11:08:51 EST From: stosc::tcomeau@scivax.stsci.edu (Teela Brown's Younger Brother) Subject: Treatment of Iowa-class Mk7 16in/50 Guns Summary: (33) 16 Inch Guns (done for local consumption, possibly of interest) I've been looking at all the Iowa big-gun rounds, trying to do a rigorous treatment of the available warheads. I believe we've been playing them wrong. While the three barrels can be elevated differently, and thus fire at different ranges, the DP given is for a three shell salvo. Service rounds described below would be available to any battleship commander, and are carried in all Iowa-class magazines in large numbers. The development round is one seen in "Iowa Class Battleships" by Sumrall (Naval Institute Press) and probably exists in small numbers, but may not be available on all ships of the class. The research round, if it exists, is probably available only in small numbers, and not before 1992 (or whenever V-22 achieves IOC). It was identified as a requirement by the USMC in 85 or 86, but I don't have the reference with me. The gun: Mk7 16in/50cal (406mm/50). ROF=2rpm (1/tac turn). No anti-air capability. Basic Pk => .30 Basic Pk should be better, but probably isn't since the crews rarely get gunnery practice. Experience in Korea was in the range of .40-.50, in Vietnam .20 for first shot, .70 thereafter using a ballistic radar (HP-85C) to correct after the first round. In Beirut, however, HC rounds against shore targets were pretty poor performers. Note that the ROF was confirmed after the Iowa explosion by Admiral Crowe and by at least one former Iowa-class captain in comments about the explosion. What follows is a rigorous treatment using the data from "Iowa Class Battleships" and annex Q. ICM are treated as generic cluster bombs delivered by shell. The shell dispense the munitions over an oval area about 100 yds wide and 300 yds long, then impacts about 2000 yds downrange. Service rounds for 406mm/50: Mk 8, full charge 2700 AP (1227kg) Pk=0.30 82 DP/shell, 245 DP/salvo. 20.0nm range (40,185 yds) 12.1 nm/tac turn (2425 f/s) Mk 8, "T" charge 2700 AP (1227kg) Pk=0.40 82 DP/shell, 245 DP/salvo. 11.2nm range (22,490 yds) 8.6 nm/tac turn (1800 f/s) Mk 13, full charge 1900 HC (864kg) Pk=0.30 58 DP/shell, 173 DP/salvo. shore targets. 20.3nm range (40,550 yds) 13.5 nm/tac turn (2690 f/s) Mk 14, full charge 1900 HE (864kg) Pk=0.30 58 DP/shell, 173 DP/salvo. naval targets, impact or airburst. 20.3nm range (40,550 yds) 13.5 nm/tac turn (2690 f/s) Mk 13, half charge 1900 HC (864kg) Pk=0.40 58 DP/shell, 173 DP/salvo. shore targets. 13.1nm range (26,244 yds) 10.4 nm/tac turn (2075 f/s) Mk 14, half charge 1900 HE (864kg) Pk=0.40 58 DP/shell, 173 DP/salvo. naval targets, impact or airburst. 13.1nm range (26,244 yds) 10.4 nm/tac turn (2075 f/s) Mk 146, full charge 1900 ICM (1725 * .5kg) Pk=0.40 173DP/shell, 518 DP/salvo. Airburst. (cluster bomb) 19.3nm range (38,550 yds) 13.5 nm/tac turn (2690 f/s) Development round: Some rounds known to exist, training rounds handled by crew of _Iowa_ during development. Mk ???, full charge 1350 HE (613kg) <13in discarding sabot> 41 DP/shell, 123 DP/salvo. Impact or airburst. 37.5nm range (75,000 yds) 13.5 nm/tac turn (2700 f/s) SALH shell. Unguided Pk=0.10, guided Pk=0.30 Mk ???, half charge 1350 HE (613kg) <13in discarding sabot> 41 DP/shell, 123 DP/salvo. Impact or airburst. 18.8nm range (37,600 yds) 10.4 nm/tac turn (2075 f/s) SALH shell. Unguided Pk=0.30, guided Pk=0.60 Research round: Requirement identified by USMC for long-range fire support in conjunction with vertical envelopment using long-range helo or V-22 insertion. Mk ???, full charge 700 ICM (636 * .5kg) Pk=0.40 63 DP/shell, 191 DP/salvo. Airburst. (cluster bomb) 70.0nm range (140,000 yds) 13.5 nm/tac turn (2700 f/s) There was also a nuclear round, but reportedly these have all been disassembled and/or sent to museums. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 3 Dec 1990 12:31:58 EST From: stosc::tcomeau@scivax.stsci.edu (Teela Brown's Younger Brother) Subject: Play by Mail/Computer Game Experience Here Summary: (34) PBeM Experience The play-by-mail and computer gaming threads prompted this posting, along with a desire to introduce our site. I'm at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, MD. We are the science operations center for the Hubble Space Telescope. About 25 people have been involved in a series of play-by-mail over the last three years. Almost everyone is in the Operations Division, about two thirds are astronomers / science operations people and the other third computer people; system manager or system engineering types. Only a couple of us have a military or defense industry background. I, like most of the people here, have never played Harpoon as an actual board game, but have always played "by mail". I've also never played the commercial computer Harpoon (though several people here have) but instead play another sort of home-grown computer Harpoon. The games are play by mail in the sense that players send their orders to a referee, who runs one turn a day and sends out detections by E-mail. We limit things to a turn a day to avoid interference with our jobs, and keep our use of Institute computer resources at the noise level. The referee has a set of software tools that implement the rules, along with some extensions we've agreed on, for movement, detection, and weapons fire (though not hits and damage). [Before anyone asks: No, we are _not_ willing to distribute it, for three reasons: First, we are concerned about copyright restrictions, and have been advised by counsel not to distribute absent an understanding with the copyright holder. Second, we're unwilling to support it, and it is not friendly or simple to use. Third, this is a NASA contractor site, and we are sensitive to the need to limit our "personal" use of the facilities.] Players have also developed software to plot and analyze the detections, correlate information, and improve the decision-making process. The only paper we still use are ship sheets, which we make ourselves using TeX. The current scenario is pretty typical of our play. There are two task forces, one US/Nato, one USSR/Warsaw Pact. The Nato Group is escorting a convoy across the Atlantic, and is centered on a light aircraft carrier. The Soviet group is trying to sink the convoy, and is centered on a Kiev-class carrier. Both sides are supported by submarines. [I'm being vague because the game is in progress, and I'm the US Commander. I don't know the detailed Soviet order of battle, and I'd prefer my Russki counterpart didn't know mine.] We've played as little as a single tac turn, and as long as two hours in a day. We typically do ten to twenty minutes during quiet periods, and two to four minutes during non-missile combat. When the missiles fly, it's 30 seconds a day. Since September we've had one air-to-air combat and three anti-sub engagements. One of these is underway. While this means that games take several months, it also means something interesting is usually happening to at least some of the players. The largest game we played involved three sides (US/USSR/Libya) and four task forces, including a Marine Battalion Landing Team. [That game broke down for external reasons, (there's this telescope...) after some interesting air combats, so a "diplomatic solution" was declared.] We feel this works pretty well, even if it takes a long time to determine the winner. Even the losers have fun. We *_always_* use a dedicated referee. The workload on the referee is enormous, and only four people have done it so far. Only two referees are currently "qualfied" on the tool, and a third is in training. I've done two games, and found it difficult, time consuming, and very enjoyable. My view is that if you play by e-mail, you need a tool to at least do movement and determine if a platform is in range for detections. For large scenarios (more than about six ships/three players) you need a tool to do automagic detections and produce something you can mail out, along with plotting tools to get the big picture. tc> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tom Comeau | tcomeau@stsci.edu (Internet) Senior System Manager, ops support | tcomeau@stsci (BITNet) Space Telescope Science Institute | scivax::tcomeau (SPAN) 3700 San Martin Drive | Baltimore, MD 21218 | (301) 338-4749 (Ma) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 09:22 PST From: bruce@bonnie-tcp.astro.ucla.edu Subject: Re: Where Did My Hornets Go? - The Disappearing Aircraft Bug Summary: (35) Disappearing Aircraft In (15) Where Did My Hornets Go?, randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu writes: (Describing F/A-18 strike; 7 aircraft splashed and 17 survived.) >while the other 17 landed. Only, I never saw the surviving 17. I could >pull them up with the Ready Aircraft menu, nor did they show up as available >resources. Where did they go? Is this a bug? I have observed this disappearing aircraft thing on several occasions. It appears to operate like this: (1) Flight of aircraft reaches BINGO fuel and you are given the "Return to base immediately" message; you order them back to base (2) They fly back to base and start landing (3) During the landing process, you are again told that that flight is at BINGO fuel and should be ordered back to base immediately. You click on the "Yes" box and order them back again (4) This confuses the landing process so that only a portion of the flight (either the ones that landed before the message or after; I'm not sure) makes it to processing for re-launch. The rest are visible on some menus (the formation editor lists them as "empty" and won't let them launch; one of the status displays for the base lists them as "landing") but you can't do anything with them ever again. Solutions: (A) keep careful track of your formations. When the second "return to base immediately" message shows up for a formation that is already landing, *ignore it*! (B) Always order flights home when they're nearly at BINGO fuel, so that you never see the "return to base immediately" message (C) Accept the losses as the inevitable maintenance and human error aircraft losses that Harpoon doesn't model. (My biggest complaint about computer Harpoon is that aircraft operation is only limited by maintenacnce; aircrews can fly their F-14s on intercept missions 24 hours/day with only one-hour rests.) I have only just recieved by version 1.2, so I don't know if this has been fixed. Another bug I noticed in version 1.1: it seemed that whenever I used the formation editor to launch helos on ASW patrols inside a group, it caused all the towed-array-sonars in the group to stop working permanantly. I'm not quite sure of this . . . did anyone else observe it? It seems to be repaired in 1.2. Bruce Macintosh Department of Astronomy, UCLA bruce@bonnie-tcp.astro.ucla.edu bruce@uclastro.bitnet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Thu Dec 6 10:14:55 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA04156; Thu, 6 Dec 90 10:14:55 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 10:14:55 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9012061814.AA04156@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #15 (msgs 36-42) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 6 December 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 15 First Message: 36 Messages: 7 Topics: (36) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (37) Email Harpoon rmz@ifi.uio.no (38) Where Did My Hornets Go? dgil@pa.reuter.com (39) Naval Tactics (EMCON) davisje@crdgw2.crd.ge.com (40) GDW South Atlantic War robinro@ism.isc.com (41) Mac Version! BUGS! randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (42) Mac Bugs tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 3 Dec 1990 10:18:12 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (36) Editorial New members added since last issue: wayne@saturn.cs.swin.oz.au (Wayne J. Cosshall) bae@auspex.com (Brian A. Ehrmantraut) gordos@ucunix.san.uc.edu (John Gordos) jtgorman@caslon.cs.arizona.edu (J. Taggart Gorman) undrground!amix!bryanh@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (Bryan Harpel) wirehead@oxy.edu (David J. Harr) cfhacc@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Christopher F. Haupt) rickl@adapt.net.com (Rick Lowe) scooter@emunix.emich.edu (Todd McDaniel) motyka@eosl460a.erim.org (Randy Motyka) nelson@udel.edu (Mark Nelson) csmsets@oac.ucla.edu (Ed Sakabu) rschirme@digi.lonestar.org (Reynold Schirmer) jjszucs@cbmvax.commodore.com (John J. Szucs) unf7!tlvx!sysop@bikini.cis.ufl.edu (Gary Wolfe) terryy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Terry Yeung) The buildup of new members continues... The archives now contains a few new files. "LOS" is a corrected line of sight table for the miniatures version of Harpoon. The file "india.Z" is a compilation (with slight corrections) of the Indian Navy article series. Captain's Edition Harpoon errata and new rules are described in "captains.Z". All of this material has appeared before in CZ. I have just pulled out some items of particular interest, so that people don't have to hunt through all the back issues. Finally, the file "INDEX" lists the current state of the archives. Also, I would like to thank Dan Corrin again for allowing us to use sunbane. FTPers be nice; we are only guests there! -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Dec 1990 00:41:57 +0100 From: Bj|rn Remseth Subject: (37) Email Harpoon I'm looking for someone to play Harpoon with using email. I have the board game, but not very many around here are interested in playing it. If I get some (at least two) responses we can then set up a private discussion and iron out the details, decide who will be the referee and so on. (Rmz) Bj\o rn Remseth Institutt for Informatikk Net: rmz@ifi.uio.no Phone: +472 453466 Universitetet i Oslo, Norway NeXTmail: rmz@neste.uio.no ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 4 Dec 90 19:40:14 PST (Tue) From: dgil@pa.reuter.com (Dave Gillett) Subject: (38) Where Did My Hornets Go? Randy reports two things that need comment, about Computer Harpoon: 1. His aircraft reached Bingo fuel before reaching the launch point for their weapons. Since "Bingo fuel" is enough to return to base + 10% (!), it may often be safe to continue a little beyond that point before turning back. Bingo fuel is a reminder that you should be thinking about turning back, not a requirement that you do so. (Some high-value targets will justify a one-way trip. Also note that movements of the launching carrier while the planes are in the air can make a difference....) 2. The 17 aircraft that made it back to base disappeared. I often notice that an air group will "reach BINGO fuel" while in the midst of landing. Telling them to return to base at this point is fatal: They appear on the base's formation display thereafter _underneath_ a unit of 0 aircraft of that type, with a mission of "Empty", and never again appear on any of the "Ready Aircraft" or "Launch Aircraft" menus. This is clearly a software bug. Dave Gillett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 5 Dec 90 08:28 EST From: Jonathan E. Davis Subject: (39) Naval Tactics (EMCON) One thing I would be interested in discussing and hearing the views of other Harpoon players is the use of Emmision Control (EMCON) for a surface fleet engagement. Emmision control is the elimination of all search radar emmisions and radio broadcasts to reduce the chances of detection by enemy air, surface, and submarine units. The disadvantage of EMCON is the reduction in response time when an enemy has detected or sighted your fleet and has begun to target BOL SSMs to your position. Granted the active homing devices on the SSMs will trigger ESM detection of the incoming missiles, the opportunity to fire multiple salvos of SAMs is greatly reduced. Is there any standard doctrine for the use of EMCON? Is intermittent radiation viable at half hour or hourly intervals for surface detection? At what point do environment conditions, such as night or weather, influence whether or not search radars are in active use? Jon Davis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Dec 90 10:16:58 -0800 From: robinro@ism.isc.com (Robin Roberts) Subject: (40) GDW South Atlantic War In late November someone asked when South Atlantic War { a module of the Falklands War for Harpoon } would be out. On GEnie in the Harpoon topic, Ed Kettler, the author, posted that it would be out approx April 1991 from GDW. Also the Mediterranean Battleset for the Computer Harpoon is supposed to be out Real Soon Now. R.D. Roberts ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Dec 1990 10:23:50 CST From: randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Longshot) Subject: (41) Mac Version! BUGS! Well, we have had the Mac version of Harpoon for about a week now, here at my office. I have not played much, but here are the bugs/gripes so far from the newly-addicted owner of the game: Locks up frequently (10 times in about 20 games) Comes as B&W, 360 wants additional $15 for color version They did not use real windows. The virtual windows they use confuse MacOS, sometimes horribly. A case where all the graphics were being drawn 2in up and 2in to the right of the window. Also, many features, such as moving individual points in the course editor, are trivial under the Mac development toolbox. More news when we get the color version. Randy -- Randy J. Ray University of Oklahoma, Norman Campus (405)/325-5370 !chinet!uokmax!randy randy@uokmax.uucp randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu "No one knows what it's like to be the the bad man, to be the sad man behind blue eyes..." -The Who ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 5 Dec 1990 12:11:52 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (42) Mac Bugs I have gotten the Macintosh version to crash a few times also. It either stops doing anything (i.e., locks up) or it is as if you pressed the reboot/reset button. It seems one type of crash is correlated with finding bearings. But I don't still really know how I did it. Some crashes may be related to fooling with the time compression buttons. On the other hand, maybe the program was already in it's death throes, when I tried to hurry it up. One other problem I have noticed occurs if you launch aircraft and then split the group that launched them. It seems the aircraft get confused when trying to return to base. The just keep on going (in one case, right past the launching group). Exactly, where the program thinks they are going, I am not sure. Also, as other people have commented before, the interface is not very Mac-like in many places. It uses PC style interaction in many places that have a corresponding obvious "Mac way". That being said, it is still lots of fun to play! -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Mon Dec 10 12:04:57 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA00694; Mon, 10 Dec 90 12:04:57 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Dec 90 12:04:57 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9012102004.AA00694@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #16 (msgs 43-47) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 10 December 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 16 First Message: 43 Messages: 5 Topics: (43) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (44) Amiga Version caw@miroc.chi.il.us (45) More Mac Bugs ted@cs.utexas.edu (46) Re: Naval Tactics (EMCON) sandia!ralph@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (47) Darned Auto Point Defense randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon 10 Dec 1990 10:59:11 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (43) Editorial New members since last issue: allen@enzyme.berkeley.edu (Ed Allen) baldwin@cad.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin) davidb@hpcuhd.cup.hp.com (David Black) boosman@adobe.com (Frank Boosman) ibmchs!auschs!fiveash!will@cs.utexas.edu (Will Fiveash) glarimer@oracle.com (Gordon Larimer) xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Nigel) sollanik@intuit.com (Steve Ollanik) frankie@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Frank Schick) seurer@rchland.iinus1.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) joes@pusun3.princeton.edu (Joseph Studholme) jhthomas.us1.oramail@us.oracle.com (Joe H. Thomas) I will be on Christmas vacation for about two weeks starting on the 19th of December. There will not be any CZ issues in that period. (I need an AI stand-in :-). -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 20:08:18 CDT From: caw@miroc.chi.il.us (Christopher A. Wichura) Subject: Re: Mac Version! BUGS! Summary: (44) Amiga Version :Date: Thu, 6 Dec 1990 10:23:50 CST :From: randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Longshot) :Subject: (41) Mac Version! BUGS! : :Well, we have had the Mac version of Harpoon for about a week now, here at my : : They did not use real windows. The virtual windows they use confuse : MacOS, sometimes horribly. A case where all the graphics were : being drawn 2in up and 2in to the right of the window. This sounds very much like the way the Amiga version is. The way it responds, it does seem they are faking their own pseudo-windowing system, at least for the main tactical screen (the various requesters could be done under Intuition, albiet poorly). This might also explain why so many of the sunmouse/mouse accelerators/general mouse toys cause the program to crash almost instantly. I have also noticed cases where targets were being drawn where they wern't supposed to be. Or explosions being shown in the middle of nothing instead of on the target that was hit. Granted, it doesn't happen that often, and it usually fixes itself fairly quickly, but it is still anoying. I usually have it happen at least once per game, if not more. By far the biggest problem with Amiga Harpoon is that it does not work under KickStart 2.0 (the new op system) at all. Once one has become used to 2.0, v1.3 is a kludge and rebooting the system to run under 1.3 is a majro hassle, as well as cuts down on productivity as I have to shut all my other stuff down as well. When calling 360, they give one a ``you've got 1.3, so why complain about 2.0'' line, which is a really crummy attitude... -=> CAW /////////////////////////////////////|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Christopher A. Wichura |Real programmers don't play tennis, or caw@miroc.chi.il.us (my amiga) |any other sport that requires you to u12401@uicvm.uic.edu (school account)|change clothes. Mountain climbing is |OK, and real programmers wear their Please! Do not send mail to my school|climbing boots to work in case a account unless mail to miroc bounces.|mountain should suddenly spring up in I often do not check uicvm.uic.edu |the middle of the machine room. for periods in excess of a week. | --Unix Fortune \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|////////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Dec 90 13:39:08 CST From: ted@cs.utexas.edu (James Woodward) Subject: (45) More Mac Bugs Hoboy. Am I dissapointed with what happenned to me last night. I was playing 'Duel', and the Ruskie launched a bunch of SS-N-19's at me. No prob, the VA, Leahy, and the VLS Tico handled them. Then came some SS-N-22s. Again, no prob. Then his Oscar and the rest of his fleet launched almost everything at me. Enough is enough, I decided, and send up a SeaHawk with it's RADAR on (the Soviets were out of range of my SS RADAR). Gotcha. I launched almost everything, with some nukes in for good measure. My missiles were outgoing, his were incoming. So I wait for my SAMs to fire. And wait. And wait. Hmm...24 miles from the Tico. With 35 mile range missiles. And wait. Virginia shoots down 3 missiles with guns, then dies. I also lose 2 destroyers. Then he starts lobbing his SAMs at my missiles. Damn. He toasts them pretty good, but WAY exceeding the ROF and guidance capability of Frunze and the Slavas to do so. And shoots a bunch down with SAMs from his Udaloys. From across the formation. Knowing the Udaloy is an ASW ship, I looked it up. It only has SA-N-9s, range 8nm. Sigh. So I close to gun range after trading SAM shots at the ships. He stupidly lobbed nuke SA-N-6s at my Standards. Then Iowa cuts loose. Why does Iowa only have 2 16" turrets? I'm talking about the CLASS here. Anyway, I toast an Udaloy, a Sovremeny and a Kresta I. Suddenly Frunze is in range. I shoot. Miss. I shoot. Miss. I shoot. Crash. Reboot. I guess Harpoon doesn't like the thought of a Kirov getting hit by a 16" round. And about 'Rapier', just how do yo win that as NATO? My Tomahawks keep getting shot down by SAMs at the airfields. And I keep getting killed by the Sovs, even when creeping. When I avoid a torpedo (these things show and amazing ability to close with a 32 knot 688 when they only go 33 knots...) I can't dissapear. And the Sovs rely on active sonobouys almost exclusively; I haven't seen one yet. Anybody out there used harpoons against land bases? They work REAL well. I wasn't aware that you could shoot hapoons at airports. Sigh. Ted Woodward (ted@cs.utexas.edu) "Mad scientists HATE shopping for shoes!" -- Peaches ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Dec 90 16:26:24 -0700 From: sandia!ralph@unmvax.cs.unm.edu Subject: (46) Re: Naval Tactics (EMCON) Jon brings up an interesting point about EMCON. I'd like to hear A) how it usually comes into play in Harpoon and B) what is the US (or any other) Navy's doctrine on the subject. I've seen three sorts of approaches to this by players in Harpoon. All seem to understand the concept of EMCOM, but chose to implement it in different ways. The first group goes for total EMCOM. They usually suffer the most anxiety when they get an ESM detect of some sort of long range airborne radar since they don't know if they've been discovered. If an air strike is on the way, every SAM is usually needed for defense, but if it isn't then the radar will give them away for sure. The second group goes for partial EMCOM where only certain ships transmit at certain times. This can keep the other player guessing about the makeup of your force. One player likes to station a ship well in front of his surface group as a picket (sacrifice). Incoming strikes have been confused by this tactic and ended up confused long enough that they were not able to hit the main force effectively. Of course the picket often ends up as an oil slick... This tactic also ceases to work if you use it very often since few people get burned by it twice. The third group doesn't believe in EMCOM. They *know* something's out there (a paranoid bunch) and they want to find it. All three groups start to fall into this last catagory as soon as things start to hit the fan. At some point it seems that most folks dump the EMCOM in favor of knowing what's going on out there. Ralph Keyser Albuquerque, NM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 1990 12:49:34 CST From: randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Longshot) Subject: #@!$% Automated Point-Defense... Summary: (47) Darned Auto Point Defense The more often computer Harpoon fails to do point defense for no reason at all, the less likely that such will be a feature of my game. With alarming regularity, particularly in the scenario "The Duel," incoming missles are detected, I turn radar on, and watch as the missles attack my ships unchallenged. There is no way that I know of to force point defense, since any attempts to do so give me the message "anit-missle attacks are handled automatically." Only they are not being handled at all. Last night, I successfully sank all 12 Soviet surface ships before he launched a single missle. However, there was still the SSGN out there with SS-19-N missles, which shredded my otherwise strong fleet. Very few SAMs had already been used (he launced an attack on Keflavik that passed close enough to my fleet for defenses to kick in). So, I knew the defenses were working. They just didn't DO anything. Most frustrating. This has happened in both the Mac and PC versions of the game. I wouldn't really mind, if I could at least manage my point defenses manually. Randy -- Randy J. Ray University of Oklahoma, Norman Campus (405)/325-5370 !chinet!uokmax!randy randy@uokmax.uucp randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu Systems programmers are the high priests of a low cult. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * ********** From cz Tue Dec 11 09:30:45 1990 Received: by penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Sendmail 5.61a+YP/2.18a) id AA01726; Tue, 11 Dec 90 09:30:45 -0800 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 09:30:45 -0800 From: cz (Convergence Zone Mailing List) Message-Id: <9012111730.AA01726@penzance.cs.ucla.edu> To: cz-dist Subject: CZ v3 #17 (msgs 48-55) Status: RO The Convergence Zone Date: 11 December 1990 Volume: 3 Issue: 17 First Message: 48 Messages: 8 Topics: (48) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (49) Mac Version & 360 Plans carlton@apollo.com (50) Re: Auto Point Defense tom%bears@hub.ucsb.edu (51) GIUK Scenario 4 johnh@nottingham.cs.ucla.edu (52) Harpoon Questions malloy@crash.cts.com (53) More on Harpoon Questions tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (54) Volume 3 Index cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (55) CZ Guidelines cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu Administration: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu Archives: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12) : pub/cz via anonymous FTP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 11 Dec 1990 08:42:08 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (48) Editorial New members added since last issue: jhg@apple.com (James Glanville) js1s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan Reed Sylvie) This issue wraps up volume 3. The volume will appear shortly on the archive site. -ted (disguised as CZ Administrator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 90 16:30:12 -0500 From: Carlton B. Hommel Subject: More about the Mac Harpoon game & 360 plans Summary: (49) Mac Version & 360 Plans One of the first things I do upon buying software is to call the support line, and find out whether my version is current, and any outstanding bugs. You should call them, too, at the 360 Support Line: (409) 776-2187. Keep trying, their phone is often busy. Send in your registration cards! There is a bug that hits Mac Plus's and LCs, causing random crashes. They hadn't heard about the bug with double-Bingoed planes dissappearing. Would someone who has actually experienced it call? I may not have described it correctly. I also reported the following: If you select a unit, and use the keyboard to issue an order (Like clover-1 for attack, or clover-6 for launch), and accidently roll over and hit two numbers, then the game hangs after completing the first action. I complained about the windows not being resizeable, and not being able to buy the color version via mail-order or from a store shelf. I complained about the stupid AI routines, and he said that they were being reworked. I raved about the database and the simulation. Call with your complaints and kudos. The Senario Editor will cost about $40, and be available in the spring of 91. The Mediteranean battleset is almost ready, with the Gulf coming next. On missle intercepts - Use the formation editor to set up an AAW patrol. Then, when you detect incoming missles, you will get the usual intercept window. However, you can not intercept with planes on Ready 5. Is this true to life? Carl Hommel carlton@apollo.hp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 90 15:29:13 PST From: Tom Weinstein Subject: Re: #@!$% Automated Point-Defense... Summary: (50) Re: Auto Point Defense Comment: included message reformatted to fit in 80 columns In (47) randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Longshot) writes: > The more often computer Harpoon fails to do point defense for no > reason at all, the less likely that such will be a feature of my > game. > ... > I wouldn't really mind, if I could at least manage my point defenses > manually. I've talked to the people and 360 about this, and they say that the next version should give greater control over point defenses. I believe it's due out sometime after the beginning of the year. He is Bob...eager for fun. | Tom Weinstein tom@bears.ucsb.edu He wears a smile... Everybody run! | tweinst@polyslo.calpoly.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 90 20:52:04 PST From: johnh@nottingham.cs.ucla.edu (John Heidemann) Summary: (51) GIUK Scenario 4 I've been playing Computer Harpoon GIUK Scenario 4 (small escorted convoy), and I've got a couple of questions about tactics. First, what's the best way to defend the northern most NATO port against Soviet air strikes? You have to put fighters up on patrol, because they cannot scramble in time to intercept a Soviet attack from their airbase. I tried putting just a couple up, but they seem to get torn apart by Soviet MIGs. It looks like you just have to anticipate the Soviet attack and send a fair number of planes just as a matter of course. The general question is: you anticipate a Soviet air attack, how should you defend. Second, now that my planes defeat the Soviet air raid, I've spotted the Soviet northern surface fleet. I move in for the kill with the F-16's and Harriers carrying air-to-surface missiles. What's the best approach strategy? My current tactic is to fly around to the back of the Soviet naval group, come in to about 40nm at low and then drop to VLow for the final approach. This seems to prevent most anti-air response, but I did loose a Harrier into the deep blue sea. Has anyone else had similar experiences with flying at VLow and with anti-naval air strikes? Of course, after my Mavricks had sunk the Nanutchkas, but before they reached the interesting targets, my Mac decided to crash. Time to revert to that saved game... -John Heidemann ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun Dec 9 22:09:58 1990 From: malloy@crash.cts.com (Sean Malloy) Subject: (52) Harpoon Questions [Admin Note: Mark first sent these questions to the rec.games.board newsgroup. Sean answered him by e-mail. Then, Mark sent the whole thing to CZ. I attribute this article to Sean because he provided the answers to the questions. Another article about these questions appears below.] In rec.games.board newsgroup article <2{C^NF_@rpi.edu>, kato@rpi.edu (Mark A Kadas) writes: >1. When a missile such as a HARM, which has ARM guidance, hits a ship, >does it automatically take out a radar, or does it do normal critical >hit damage? If multiple missiles hit, will each take out a different >radar if the first case is correct? In the 'real world', a HARM seeker is set to a specific frequency band, and homes on a radar emitting in that band; from films I've seen of HARM tests, the missile usually hits within five feet of the radar it's homing on, so you could automatically take out the radar. I don't know if the seeker band is alterable from the launching platform; you may want to specify what _type_ of radar (SS, AS, HF, missile control, gun control) a given HARM is set for. >2. In the "First Team" scenario, the _Frunze_ (Kirov class BCGN) is listed >as being able to fire 12 SA-N-6's per turn, and it has 96 missiles. Are its >missiles automatically re-loaded after being fired, or do they have to >manually reload? What is the reload time? The SA-N-6 launcher system on the Kirov class ships is a vertical launch rotary launcher; there are a number of ready missiles on the launcher cylinder, and the cylinder is reloaded as fast as the missiles can be launched, up to the capacity of the magazines (96 missiles). Once emptied, it's a long, involved process to reload them. Incidentally, SA-N-4 launchers should get a reload penalty every second shot; the launcher is stored below decks, and raises to fire, but the entire launcher must be retracted completely to reload; the missiles are stored nose-down, maximizing the rotation of the launcher arms to fire. (this appeared in the latest issue of "Jane's Soviet Intelligence Review", so I can't be accused of releasing classified information) There's a mailing list for Harpoon; I don't have the address for the moderator (it's at my work net.address); you can check the list of mailing lists that gets posted periodically to news.announce.newusers and news.groups for the address. Sean Malloy | "What are ... Whores- {hplabs!hp-sdd, akgua, ucsd, nosc}!crash!malloy | Doovres?" ARPA: crash!malloy@nosc | "Or-derves. It's a Frog Navy Personnel Research and Development Center | word that means San Diego, CA 92152-6800 | munchies." UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd, akgua, ucsd}!nprdc!malloy | "Oh. They could have ARPA: malloy@nprdc.navy.mil | said." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 11 Dec 1990 07:45:13 PST From: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim) Subject: (53) More on Harpoon Questions What appears here is a rec.games.board article I posted in response to Mark's questions. Sean provided a technical discusion of the questions above. My response is oriented more on the game mechanics. In rec.games.board newsgroup article <2{C^NF_@rpi.edu>, kato@pawl.rpi.edu (Mark A Kadas) writes: >1. When a missile such as a HARM, which has ARM guidance, hits a ship, >does it automatically take out a radar, or does it do normal critical >hit damage? If multiple missiles hit, will each take out a different >radar if the first case is correct? Each missile should be targeted on a specific radar (e.g., Top Steer, Palm Frond), not just "any radar". If the missile is homing in on a radar at impact, the first critical hit generated will destroy the specific radar it was homing in on. Further critical hits would be rolled normally as per any air-burst weapon. If the missile did not have homing at impact (radar was shutdown but it hit due to "memory" capability), then critical hits are rolled normally. Destruction of the radar, in this case, is by random chance. >2. In the "First Team" scenario, the _Frunze_ (Kirov class BCGN) is listed >as being able to fire 12 SA-N-6's per turn, and it has 96 missiles. Are its >missiles automatically re-loaded after being fired, or do they have to >manually reload? What is the reload time? The SA-N-6 missiles are stored in 12 "revolver" type launchers that hold eight missiles each. Each launcher is capable of launching all eight, one after another, one per turn, without any manual reloading. The limiting factor is the fire control system. Each of the two Top Dome directors can control two to six missiles in flight. The game uses the averge value of four. So you can only have eight missiles in flight at any one time. Thus, you don't get to use the full ROF. Should all launchers be exhausted, there are no further reloads on board. The ship would have to reloaded outside of the context of the scenario (i.e., in port or by replenishment ship). -ted Ted Kim Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu UCLA Computer Science Department UUCP: ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek 3804C Boelter Hall Phone: (213)206-8696 Los Angeles, CA 90024 FAX: (213)825-2273 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 11 Dec 1990 08:43:31 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: (54) Volume 3 Index Volume Issue Date Messages Author ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 1 18 September 1990 (1) Warship Commander? d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (2) Air Ordnance Details tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 2 1 October 1990 (3) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (4) Miniatures tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 3 5 October 1990 (5) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (6) Recent Naval Developments tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 4 12 October 1990 (7) Annex A, India (Part 1) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 5 19 October 1990 (8) Annex A, India (Part 2) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 6 23 October 1990 (9) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (10) Maverick Models frank0@ibmpcug.co.uk (11) Annex A, India (Part 3) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 7 30 October 1990 (12) Annex A, India (Part 4) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 8 8 November 1990 (13) Annex A, India (Part 5) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 9 14 November 1990 (14) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (15) Where did my Hornets go? randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (16) Realtime vs. Think Time randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (17) Annex A, India (part 6) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 10 16 November 1990 (18) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (19) Re: Real vs. Think Time tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (20) Annex A, India (Part 7) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 11 26 November 1990 (21) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (22) Re: Color vs Utility d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (23) Midway 2000 tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 12 28 November 1990 (24) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (25) This MUST be a bug randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (26) Bugs and Things tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (27) Annex B, India (part 1) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 13 3 December 1990 (28) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (29) Annex B, India (part 2) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (30) Other Data for Indian Navy tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (31) Indian Navy Notes tek@penzance.cs.ucla.eduo 14 4 December 1990 (32) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (33) 16 Inch Guns stosc::tcomeau@scivax.stsci.edu (34) PBeM Experience stosc::tcomeau@scivax.stsci.edu (35) Disappearing Aircraft bruce@bonnie-tcp.astro.ucla.edu 15 6 December 1990 (36) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (37) Email Harpoon rmz@ifi.uio.no (38) Where Did My Hornets Go? dgil@pa.reuter.com (39) Naval Tactics (EMCON) davisje@crdgw2.crd.ge.com (40) GDW South Atlantic War robinro@ism.isc.com (41) Mac Version! BUGS! randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (42) Mac Bugs tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu 16 10 December 1990 (43) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (44) Amiga Version caw@miroc.chi.il.us (45) More Mac Bugs ted@cs.utexas.edu (46) Re: Naval Tactics (EMCON) sandia!ralph@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (47) Darned Auto Point Defense randy@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu 17 11 December 1990 (48) Editorial cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (49) Mac Version & 360 Plans carlton@apollo.hp.com (50) Re: Auto Point Defense tom%bears@hub.ucsb.edu (51) GIUK Scenario 4 johnh@nottingham.cs.ucla.edu (52) Harpoon Questions malloy@crash.cts.com (53) More on Harpoon Questions tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (54) Volume 3 Index cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (55) CZ Guidelines cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue 11 Dec 1990 08:43:27 PST From: cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject:(55) CZ Guidelines Guidelines for The Convergence Zone Last Update: 10 August 1990 Author: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim - CZ Moderator) Welcome to The Convergence Zone! Goal "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. The Harpoon products include Harpoon, Captain's Edition Harpoon, Computer Harpoon, Harpoon SITREP, and various supplements for the print and computer versions. Naval topics are discussed in so far as they are related to the game or provide useful background. The goal of CZ is interesting discussions and material and just plain fun. Submissions Messages for submission to the mailing list should be sent to "cz@pram.cs.ucla.edu". CZ is published in digest form. All messages are subject to possible rejection or editing by the moderator. Rejection should be pretty rare and only occurs if the subject of a message is wholly inappropriate or if the message is offensive. (Please keep flames to a minimum!) Editing should be pretty rare also. Reasons for editing include (but are not necessarily limited to) extreme length, obvious errors and really bad formatting. Any editing will be noted. Please double check your submissions for errors and try to stay within 80 characters per line. Administration Administrative requests should be sent to "cz-request@pram.cs.ucla.edu". Once in a while, the moderator has to do real work, so please be patient. If several people on the same machine receive the CZ, please try to organize a local redistribution. When you signup, I will send you back issues from the current volume. Previous volumes are available from the archives. Archives After each volume is complete, it along with an index is placed on "sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca" (129.100.4.12) for access by anonymous FTP. Please be polite and don't FTP from 08:00 to 18:00 US Eastern time during a workday. The CZ archive volumes appear under the "pub/cz" directory in compressed format. The volumes are named v1.Z, v2.Z, etc. The index files are named i1.Z, i2.Z, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** * CZ End * **********